Of brakes and suspension (with additional brown trouser moment)

So, is it just me, or are EBC HH pads a bit shite?

I did a complete brake overhaul at the beginning of the year.. new braided
hoses, now piston seals, new discs, new pads.

Im regretting the decision to purchase EBC Prolite discs, as they rust at
the meerest hint of moisture. The OEM Yamaha ones went a bit speckly if
ridden in the salty depths of winter, but that was about it..

Which brings me onto the point of the post..

Now that the roads have dried, and Im applying the brakes with a lot more
gusto, they just dont seem to be anywhere near as good as the old OEM discs
and standard EBC pads were.

I had cause yesterday to do an emergency stop (my own fault entirely, wasnt
paying enough attention, and discovered that all traffic had come to a halt
as I came out of the Hanger Lane underpass). As the rear wheel locked up,
and I hammered on more and more pressure on the front, I still wasnt
stopping, and had that "Now *this* is going to hurt" thought run through my
mind as I managed to fortunately come to a halt a nats hair from the rear
bumper of Mr Stationary car..

Do HH pads get clogged up with the rust that theyre constantly scraping off
the discs? Are they just shit? Are EBC disks just shit?

Admittedly, the suspension on the front end is tired and soggy, and needs
sorting out soon, but would it have that much of an effect on brake
performance?

I *really* dont want another experience like that. I was still quivering
slightly from the adrenaline squirt when I got home.

So apologies if I may have delayed you whilst filtering on the A40 this
morning. I was busy riding like a big girls blouse..

Ideas people?

 

Spike wrote

As far as I know the back only locks easy up when it goes light and/or
comes off the ground. At this point the front is doing all the work and
if it does any more you move into stoppie territory.

If however if it is the case that the back locks up not as a result of a
well worked right hand but a piss poorly applied right boot then you are
by no means slowing as fast as you can and a subtle shift in emphasis is
the order of the day.

Once you are aware which of the two scenarios applies in your particular
circumstances then it may be worth your while criticising any one or
other component of the braking system at random.

The rider is a ****.

 

All your comments are indeed valid

I was indeed not paying enough attention to the road ahead, and could have
avaoided all drama purely by being a bit more switched on. But Im not
perfect, and had rather a lot on my mind yesterday..

I was indeed applying right foot far too hard. But the point I am (probably
badly) trying to make is that the EBC disc/HH combination is not as good at
stopping the bike as the OEM disk and big standard EBC pad combination was,
on slightly less knackered suspension Im just trying to figure out which of
these is generally percieved as to being the weak point..

 

Spike wrote

There are those who argue that applying is of itself too hard.

Well I am no help to you then am I? My take on it is that if I had a)
the bollox and b) the muscles, I could persuade my GS to tip me straight
over the bars in the twinkle of an eye, no probs.

Oh, if it does help, I use them brake pads wot Julian Soper sells.

 

This is exactly it... I could have easily done so with the old combo, but I
reckon Id be very hard pushed to do so atm... I had a bit of a test session
when I got home last night down a side road, testing out just how good the
brakes were. My conclusion is that they arent. :-(

 

Spike wrote

Yeah well let that be a lesson to you then, power rangerist tendencies
are not without their down side, embrace them at your peril.

 

when you locked up the back end , did you pull the clutch in , i know
it seems a daft question to ask but i have seen many people do this
prematurely

--

 

Yup. They move fine. Brakes come up nice and hard. It just seems that
theres not as much friction between the pads and discs as before I changed
them...

 

Oh, probably... I wasnt actually paying that much attention at the time..
though actually, maybe I didnt, as in recollection, the machine had stalled
when I came to a stop...

All my fault. I should have been paying more attention.. Id still like the
front brake to work better though..

 

sounds as though you where in top gear at low speed if you stalled it

--

 

new pads will not offer max grip until bedded in this can take 100 plus
miles depending on your ridding style

did you clean the pads discs etc before and after fitting , they may
have been contaminated with fluid or grease

--

 

A similar thing happened to me twice, yesterday, both times on the
motorway. The first time I swerved into lane 2a (!) and the second I
got the good old adrenaline rush like you say. Obviously the first time
should have been enougth to make me more careful.. Today I started
leaving the correct amount of space,'only a fool breaks the 2 second
rule ' etc etc it is the 6th of the 6-'06 isnt it. It amazes me how
close some people will get, crazy.

As the rear wheel locked up,

never really had any wheels lock up, I normally envision those £100
tyres wearing out and try to brake smoothly. My bike + me on it are
*WAY* too heavy to lift off the back wheel, I would think.



Simon

 

I was going to say that, but in English. Until the pads and discs
have matching micro-grooves they will offer little in the way of
retardation. Get them used - lightly(sih) to start with and then more
heavily - deliberately, if neccessary. Then do the Coke Can test.

That too - are EBC discs coated with anti-corrosion goo that needs
cleaning off before use, or did I imagine that? Pads ought to be
clean out of the box.

 

It is you. Andy Bonwick swears by the EBC disc/pad combo, for
example.

It has taken you a while to realise that all is not right.

The Prolite discs have a lot of iron in them. Pukka cast iron discs
are much more efficient, but rust like absolute bastards. At the
other end of the scale, stainless discs like Honda used to fit in the
70s will never ever rust, nor will they ever wear out - becasue they
offer absolutely no friction to the pads.

Neither are shit - provided you have indeed got HH pads - EBC Greens
are dangerously shit.

Yes, enormous amounts. Anticipate more and get your suspension sorted
asap.

That's what riding a bike is all about, Shirley.

You might want to read this, and google around the subject yourself:

http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/streetsurvival/advanced_braking/

 

I hope you did, because I can't imagine any brake manufacturer greasing
its brake linings before sale.

 

Hmmm, not an awful lot of use, really, other than debunking the
(apparently common in the US) myth about never using the rear brake.
What it doesn't address is how to achieve the holy grail of
inexperienced riders - getting the absolute maximum out of your brakes
without locking up.

IME this is something that many newbies struggle with, sometimes for
years, all predicated on the idea that if you lock the wheels,
particularly the front, you will crash. Until a rider's got his bike
to the point where it's either stoppying or skidding the front, he's
not going to have the confidence to use it to anywhjere near its full
potential.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`

 

Well, to be honest, I ride like a complete girl in the wet/cold, so havent
really had much cause to really give the brakes a good test IYSWIM...

All good info....

Ah ha! Right, so assuming that they are HH, might they be getting clogged up
with gunk?..

Exactly the sort of info I was wanting. Cheers Pip.

But I have discovered that there are two types of adrenaline.. type 1 leaves
you grinning, type two leaves you smelling bad

I know the theory, and sometimes put it into practice on a trading
estate/quiet side road... I beleive that there was a little voice in the
back of my head shouting
"frontbackfrontbackfrontbackfrontbackdontpulltheclutchinyetmorefrontshitshitshitshitshitshitshit.."

But hey, you live and learn. Im normally very good at keeping my distance
and generally being safe (I wont tempt fate by stating how many accidents I
havent had in over 18 years of riding/driving).

 

Spike wrote:
I wont tempt fate by stating how many accidents I

No. Don't. 10 days ago, on the way to the airport at 4:30am, 12yr old
asked,

"Dad, have you got any points on your licence?"

"No," I replied, "I've never had any" (feeling smug)

Flash Flash

awaiting post

 

I hope you did, because I can't imagine any brake manufacturer greasing
its brake linings before sale.[/QUOTE]

Discs. Not linings, discs.

 

Discs. Not linings, discs.[/QUOTE]

Oh yes, my eyes deceive me. Well, same applies, really.