NSW/SYD: banning colours summary so far

For those who don't want to wade through the lot:

From what I can see, this is what is happening:

Licence conditions on some pubs in Parammatta are being changed to ban
OMC colours and regalia and various people want it to be extended too
all pubs. This is so the publicans can call the police to remove people
who are wearing these even if the wearers are otherwise inoffensive.
Previously they could only enforce a dresscode using their own security
staff and that could lead to difficulty and other patrons being scared
off.

This is giving publicans bigger teeth that they can bite harder and
faster with, but the idea of a dress code is not new. The ability to
enforce it with bigger firepower is.

These are the concerns:

- It is possible for this to give publicans more reason (and possibly
a requirement, it isn't clear if this will be in all licence renewals
or only if the pub asks for it) to have a dress code they might not have
had before.

- If more pubs have this dress code, they might enforce it in a way
that stops non-1%ers from getting in the pub. We have no way to know
if this will happen. Some think it likely, some think it unlikely

- It isn't known if this will stop at pubs. If it is being used as a
way to deal with organised crime it might be extended to other premises.
There's no mention of this anywhere official or semi-official, except
that police are "watching with interest".


Then there are the moral/ethical/princple arguments:

- No matter which group is targetted, refusing someone
entry because they are wearing clothing to indicate affiliation with
a certain social or political group is wrong, and should be opposed on
those grounds, not because there might be fallout on other riders.

- the 1%ers get upset when people wear colours and are
now whinging when they get a taste of their own medicine - whinging
that a bigger nastier gang (the Blue Gang) will whack them for it. And
that if they want support they will have to deserve same which they are
showing no signs of trying to do.

- 1%ers have brought it on themselves and so can't complain. They
revel in their reputation and now when it bites they get upset.

- There are bad bastards in every group, count the criminal
convictions held by members of the RSL, so targetting one group that
has wrong'uns and not another is bad.

Have I missed any?


Zebee

 

A fair summary, I'd just add the point raised by Big that where this
is being driven from has some relevance to the appropriate reaction.
If it's just some publicans wanting a better / more effective way of
managing who they have on premises, it's one thing. If this is going
to be forced on all pubs whether they want it or not, then that's
another thing.

In short there's a big difference between assisting a publican to
discriminate effectively and safely, and forcing a publican to
discriminate against his/her will.

JL

 

In aus.motorcycles on Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:37:49 -0800 (PST)

Can you suggest wording for the above to make that clearer?

Zebee

 

Yes, you missed the bit that it's people wearing club colours, not
people who are riding motorcycles who will be refused entry. In fact
the opening paragraph of your original post highlights the point..

"There's a move afoot in Sydney to ban people from entering pubs if they
are wearing outlaw club colours or otherwise displaying club logos. (And
they've named the clubs, the ones most of us think of when we think
"outlaw club" such as Rebels and Bandidos). THe idea is the pubs
themselves do the banning rather than this being a law as such."

... you didn't even mention 'motorcycles' or 'motorcyclists' once.

Nev..
'07 XB12X

 

In aus.motorcycles on Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:26:59 +1100

How would you re-word the above paragraphs to make that more clear?

Note that it isn't "wearing colours" it is any club-related logo, no
matter how small. Or a ring.

Zebee

 

Yes and no.

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with a pub seeking to restrict or
control who their clientele are provided they don't breech anti-
discrimination legislation. Therefore if this is coming from the
publicans then I don't think the MCC should get involved. If it is
being driven by the cops and it is proposed to be a mandatory
condition of ALL licences, then the removal of a publican's right to
choose to server OMCG's is a bad situation for general freedom of
commerce and is institutionalising discrimination of individuals based
on their association rather than their actions.

In other words it's very different whether it's the pubs or the govt.

JL

 

In aus.motorcycles on Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:06:25 -0800 (PST)

OK, howabout

"It is possible for this to give publicans more reason to have a dress
code they may not have had before. It is not clear if this will be a
requirement of a licence renewal, or otherwise forced on pubs that
don't want this dress code".

Then add in the morals/ethics/principles section something like
- Pubs should be able to set a dress code, but it shouldn't be forced
on them by the law or by the Hotels Association

Zebee

 

A pub doing it on its own and for its own specific reasons is one thing.
The government forcing them through legal imperative is quite a
different matter altogether.

 

In aus.motorcycles on Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:21:50 +1100

Right now, the former is what is happening.

There is nothing as far as I can tell to say the latter will happen.

as far as I can tell, *if* pubs want to have that in their licence,
they can.

No one in authority has yet suggested it will be compulsory. I
believe someone - a councillor or a hotels association person, can't
recall which - has said they would like more pubs to do it.

Zebee

 

I certainly didn't. How did you possibly seed a 230 message thread in
a mere 2 days?


BTH

 

Well I dont know any pub that lets you enter whilst riding motorcycles

 

Why would you want to reword it? The lack of mention of motorcycles
or motorcyclist highlights that this is not an issue for
motorcyclists. It is an issue for members of certain clubs members.
They will be refused entry if they turn up wearing certain colours or
logos regardless of whether they ride, drive or walk to the pub
wearing banned gear. If they're asking MCC for support, maybe they
should also ask NRMA and Harold Scruby to push their cause for them as
well?

A few years ago the australian soccer federation completely reinvented
the game. They banned any clubs from wearing national colours of
particular ethnic groups or using names which associated them with
particular ethnic groups in order to reduce the intimidation,
confrontation and violence of fans at the soccer matches. I don't see
how the 1%er-pub issue is any different. They are seeking to reduce
the intimidation, confrontation and violence associated with
particular bikie club members in certain pubs. They've even named the
clubs. Just wait till this is introduced. You'll probably find that
members of clubs which weren't named will feel that they're lacking
credibility and will be begging for their clubs be added to the banned
list too.

Nev..
'07 XB12X

 

Of course it is your business, Gerry. The MCC is just a collection
of delegates from all motorcycle related clubs in NSW, of which
aus.moto is one, which represents everyone who subscribes to this
usenet group.

 

Nev.. wrote:

It's still wogball to me.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

How do you seed it? Well, firstly you need a booth...

 

In aus.motorcycles on Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:03:12 +1100

Well, there was a bit about "may mean non-1%ers are refused entry".

Nev didn't appear to see that bit either time.

Zebee

 

But in the past Nev's been known to admit that he only reads the first 3
lines anyway, eh Nev? <nudge nudge>

betty, running away

 

There are quite a number of people who still haven't seen - or
understood - that bit either, so Nev is far from being alone on that score.

 

And a broadcaster

 

Not at all. I understood exactly what your concerns were, and
discounted them as being immaterial. Your concerns about the
intelligence of pub bouncers is more a reflection on yourself than it
is on them. It appears to be a case of over-estimation on your
part.

Nev..
'07 XB12X