Northern monkeys go zoomey-zoom-zoom

Er, yes. And I'm saying there's no difference in the ability of
anyone to decide what is dangerous or not.

 

Lets turn it around - what if you have a crash on a track day and take
out 2 other riders. Would you be happy with them suing you? Especially
if the problem was not your lack of control but some other factor?

Phil

 

Of course.

I'm just thinking that the idea that you go to a track day expecting to be
punted off is not 'normal'.

Fall off, maybe - punted off - no.

I was almost knocked off the GSX-R at Brands by a person riding next to me
who swerved into the bit of road I was occupying. They knew I was there -
they'd overtaken me - just moved over. As it was I was lucky I didn't have
myself off when I jumped on the brakes to try and avoid being pushed into
the grass.

If he'd had me off, I damn well think I should have had some course of
action because it was totally uncalled for.

Racing - I'd possibly view it differently.

But as we know, I have strange views.

 

The act of falling off can punt someone else off. How do you feel
about that?

You've not answered my question - who decides what is dangerous? How
is it enforced?

 

That's different to having someone off by taking their line/cutting them
off/riding them off the road.

I don't know - I'm just saying that I agree with you about racing, I don't
agree about trackdays.

Can we leave it at that ?

 

The consequences won't be.

 

If you like, but I can't see how there is a difference, when it comes
down to it.

 

Did you know that you are odd? Just a question like

"Expecting" might be a little strong but "one possibility" might be
closer.

Lots of bikes with riders of wildly different skill levels does not
make for safe racing.

No - really?

Phil

 

I'm a fence-sitter on this one - I agree with both of you. I think the
fast group on trackdays should look out for themselves as they probably
know enough about track riding to expect the unexpected. But I'm all
for some basic rules on intermediate & beginner groups, such as
restricting the areas where you can overtake.

 

I can see the merit in this argument.

However, where it all falls down is enforcement. Say rider A *does*
take out rider B - what come back does A have? I can't see a way that
it doesn't end up in court, and that way we're all fucked.

 

I'm a bit of a novice at this, but don't you have to sign some sort of
disclaimer before you're allowed out on the track?

"I understand that motorsports are dangerous and many riders are
complete fuckwits who shouldn't be left in charge of a picture of a
bike, never mind a real one. I hereby agree not to sue the arse off
anyone who punts me off for any reason whatsoever, whether it be through
malice or complete incompetence" kind of thing?

 

Which brings us neatly round to Champ's as yet, unanswered question.
Who decides what is dangerous, where the boundaries lie and therefore
what these rules will be. There already a set of basic rules of use for when
out riding on a track. I'm personally more in favour of leaving the boundary
at the point where a person decides to take the risk of riding round a
track.
Seems the only logical solution to me. Everything else is open to all sorts
of
interpretation. Once you are on the track you have automatically agreed
that:

a) You understand the risks involved
b) You accept the responsibility for those risks
c) You agree to use the same track conventions/operational procedures/
track operators health and safety regs/whatever in force for the
track
in question.

--
Alex
BMW R1150GS
DIAABTCOD#3 MSWF#4 UKRMFBC#6 Ibw#35 BOB#8
http://www.team-ukrm.co.uk
Windy's "little soldier"

 

I suppose you could go down the route of forcing trackday organisers to
be affiliated with a governing body, & that body requiring riders to
have 3rd party insurance similar to the way enduros are run.

I've only done one trackday though & know nowt about them, so wibble.

 

Preston Kemp says...

The trackday I did last year had a no overtaking on corners rule for the
slow group.

 

I think that with trackdays, as with road-riding, you have to expect people
to do something ****-witted and then you won't be too surprised when they
do.

If there's somebody else around you that you think is riding badly,
dangerously or beyond their limits then get away from them, even if you
can't then back it off for a little bit and let them get away. It's not the
end of the world if you lose 20 or 30 seconds on one lap just to keep you
away from an arsehole who might have you off.

TBH I was quite shocked on my track day because I could have sworn that some
of the people on the track had never ridden a bike before.

--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1, Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, DS#5, COSOC# Suspended, KotTFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.

 

Alex Ferrier wrote

It seems to be the courts at the moment.

 

Yes, but apparently such waivers are meaningless in law nowadays.
Don't know why.

 

"If the law supposes that," said Mr. Bumble, "the law is an ass, a idiot."

 

Revisited? I'm not sure I went the first time.

<thinks>

Or, I've spent my whole life there...

 

Bear wrote

It has already crossed over. The Frogs and Williams would be the thin
ends of that particular wedge with the ambulance chasers coming in a
close second.