New Victorian Licensing Restrictions?

Just found the following article interesting and relevant. Election
coming, they've got to be 'seen' to be doing stuff.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/no-more-easy-riding/story-e6frf7kx-1225911364863

VICTORIA is set to introduce the toughest motorbike licence testing
conditions in Australia in a bid to bring down the state's road toll.

In an overhaul of existing motorcycle licensing, the Brumby Government
is considering a stricter testing, training and skills assessment to
make it tougher to take to the road on two wheels.

With motorcycle riders accounting for 14 per cent of fatalities and
serious injuries in Victoria despite making up less than 4 per cent of
registered vehicles last year, the Government is expected this week to
outline the radical plan to improve safety and reduce their
over-representation in the road toll.

Legislative changes being considered by the Government include:

A REQUIREMENT for learner riders to obtain a minimum number of
supervised on-road hours before they are given a licence - either 25,
50 or 120 hours;

MORE rigorous assessment of practical skills before riders can obtain
a licence;

AN automatic transmission restriction for riders who pass the test on
an automatic motorcycle such as a scooter; and

INCREASING the period new riders have to use learner-approved
motorcycles from one year to three.

The move would bring motorbike testing conditions more in line with
tests required by others such as learner car drivers who must have 120
hours of supervised driving before gaining a probationary licence.

Roads Minister Tim Pallas confirmed last night that soon he would
release a public discussion paper on the new system that would also
consider longer licence durations and restrictions on what bikes
inexperienced riders could legally use.

"The significant rise in motorcycle deaths on our roads this year is
unacceptable and we want to put measures in place to help drive down
the toll," he said.

TAC figures show motorcyclists are 38 times more likely to be
seriously injured in a crash than car drivers and passengers.

Victoria's three-year average motorcyclist fatality rate is six times
higher than the passenger car occupant fatality rate.
With 34 motorbike fatalities on Victorian roads so far this year, 12
more than in 2009, Victoria Police Supt Neville Taylor said the death
rate of motorbike riders was "a real issue".

Laws now require riders to sit a basic skills test lasting a few
minutes before they go on our roads unsupervised.

They also allow a person to complete learner and licence tests on an
automatic motorcycle, often a motor scooter with an engine capacity up
to 250cc, and be issued with a licence enabling them to ride automatic
and manually geared bikes.

Victorian motorcycle registrations rose 37 per cent (147,600) between
2005 and last year, compared with a 10 per cent increase in motor
vehicle registration (4,010,276).

 

The magic words are:

***************************************************
TAC figures show motorcyclists are 38 times more likely to be
seriously injured in a crash than car drivers and passengers.

Victoria's three-year average motorcyclist fatality rate is six times
higher than the passenger car occupant fatality rate.
With 34 motorbike fatalities on Victorian roads so far this year, 12
more than in 2009, Victoria Police Supt Neville Taylor said the death
rate of motorbike riders was "a real issue".
**********************************

I think that it is time that there is someone from the motorcycle riding
group, who should be instilled into any decision making and towards any laws
or traffic management concerning motorcycles.
The words that motorcyclists are 38 times more liable to be seriously
injured than car drivers says one thing.
That it is the car drivers who need to be educated on that point and drivers
should be held to account for incidents where they hit a motorcyclist.
No exceptions.
For too long, the car drivers have been getting away with the normal reply.
"Sorry mate, didn't see you"
said to the motorcyclist, or to the copper who has to attend
If they didn't see the motorcyclist, then they shouldn't be allowed to drive

 

strawman

never works

 

Two questions:
"A REQUIREMENT for learner riders to obtain a minimum number of
supervised on-road hours before they are given a licence - either 25,
50 or 120 hours; "
Question 1. Does this mean that learner riders will have to do a few
group rides on Saturdays?

Question 2. Am I right in thinking that the the statistic people are
trying to quote is: of all the motor vehicle accidents that happen in
Victoria that involve both a car and a motorcycle and where there is a
fatality, then it's 38 times more likely that the fatality will be
with the motorcycle rider/pillion than the car driver/passenger? If
so, that's not really surprising.

I am sick and tired of hearing half a statistic like "Motorcycle
riders have 38 times the risk of serious injury"
eg. (warning: graphic) http://theinspirationroom.com/daily/print/2009/11/tac-the-ride-outdoor.jpg
38 compared to what exactly? In this example, these words are
meaningless. It's not even a full sentence.

Obviously this statistic has been cherry-picked from a gazillion
different possible, true statistical statements to push the agenda of
the advertiser. I prefer to see the numbers like this:
1. Population of Victoria in 2009: 5,427,700 (Wikipedia Victoria)
2. Estimated number of trips by road in 2009: 3.96 Billion
3. 38 motorcyclists killed in Victoria in 2009 (Spokes crash
stats).
Doesn't sound bad.

 

If what you say: " never works"
what do you mean by that?
Come up with some sort of answer instead of a very vague reply

 

Too bad they don't improve the car licensing tests. Of course, that would
bring howls of complaints from those who should never have been allowed on
the road in the first place.

When Vic Roads had their Kilsyth training centre the quality of training was
rather good. Based on 2nd hand reports of the currently outsourced training
it's crap.

Why not apply similar for car drivers?

What percentage of those fatalities involved other vehicles, specifically
cars? How many of those were found to be the primary fault of the car
driver?

I'm happy for safety improvements but make sure they are being applied in
the right areas.

Just how the hell is this going to work? Have someone follow you everywhere?
It's impractical and foolish.

Like they used to do but don't now.

That may be logical but does the same apply for cars? How many accidents are
caused by riders inability to change gears? If riders can't handle gear
changing perhaps they don't have sufficient coordination and fine motor
skills to ride a bike in the first place.

Yawn, and just how does this reduce accidents? If it takes three years to
gain sufficient skills to be deemed competent with a bike perhaps there
should be more training to shorten this period (and exposure to risks).

Is the government smoking crack? How can you supervise a single person
vehicle for 120 hours?

OK it's mindless Tim Pallas again, which explains it all.

TRAIN THEM PROPERLY THEN!

A ridiculous stat but isn't it pretty obvious a person in a car is more
protected than a motorcyclist? Now tell me what percentage of motorcycle
accidents are caused by other vehicles (specifically cars)?

What Einstien figured that out.

Then deal with it and train people, don't throw them onto the road because
you're afraid real training may limit the revenue you'll get through speed
cameras etc.

Go back 10-15 years then and reinstate true training and programs like 'stay
upright'.

Seriously, other than scooters etc how many bikes have autos? Last
production motorcycle I can remember with one was a Honda.

Which simply means "more people are choosing to ride motorcycles and
scooters"

 

Very true

Probably the same way that they allow car learner drivers to fill out their
own log book for their "acquired" road learner use

Maybe Tim Pallas?

Stands to reason as Victoria has got less rainfall than Sydney and Brisbane
Better riding conditions all year round.....apart from the cars
Hey Nev, did you see that ??
didn't mention the amounts of days it rained

 

First I am not a professional statastician, therefore any statistic I
come up with is bound to be a bit shonky. Second I did the numbers on
the spot so I'm not pretending these are in any way watertight.

In my version of the numbers, I deliberately chose to look at the big
picture and see how many road trips of all types end up in a
motorcycle fatality because car and truck drivers often hit us. I
also deliberately chose to use the actual numbers because, when you
consider how many billions of road trips there are, 38 'unsuccessful
journeys' is such a tiny tiny percentage. It takes statistics (here
I mean statistics in the sense of a funny numbers game) to present
that tiny fraction, 38 in 4 billion, in such a way that it looks
large.

There's no reason to

 

A REQUIREMENT for learner riders to obtain a minimum number of
Well that's going to keep people as cyclists and pedestrians more than
any of the other proposals.

And good luck of you're commuter who isn't in it for the sausage party,
and everyone you know is stuck in the bad side of the ?4% of the
population who're riders (and the 50to60 year-olds who make up the local
'NON ATTITUDE!!!!' riders group creep you out..)

In my own case, I'm that unpopular I've been waiting 20 years for
someone to show me the time of day to teach me to drive-- hence the
bikes. :/

That makes almost bugger-all difference to us scooter riders.

(At least it doesn't have Queensland's "gotta have a car drivers licence
for n years first hurr".)