New cameras on Harbour Bridge

A colleague had a run-in with the bus lane cameras here in Melbourne about 10
years ago. The cameras were left switched on, photos taken and fines
despatched on a day when the entire public transport system was on strike. He
rang the office which issued the fine to explain and was told that they could
not cancel the fine and that he would have to pay the fine and then request a
refund. Apparently the fine stands and any fines which are unpaid, even
legitimately as in this example incur additional penalties and are escalated
to perin court if left unpaid.

Nev..
'03 ZX12R

 

Hello, JustALaway!
You wrote on Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:37:39 -0500:

J> thats a real pain. you can have a large truck or a some old VW in front
J> of
J> you, and be forced to
J> crawl behind it while there's an empty lane to the left.
J> ordinarily a cop will let you enter and leave the bus lane for the
J> purpose
J> of overtaking, but with the camera's one false move and you are caught.

Unless the law has changed since I got my license (and there's a good chance it has), it used to clearly state you could not overtake on the left regardless. In theory, this included dual lane roads, freeways etc., however, in reality, the police turned a blind eye to this when it occurred. I suppose thats why we ended up with all those signs around that read "keep left unless overtaking". Has this changed or are the bus lanes on the right?

Mick

 

Sorry JustAlaway, just realised the quoting was broken in the original message I replied to and I now know you didn't post it.

Mick

 

you know there isnt a camera every metre along that road ????

besides the fact that it is a bus lane and if you are a riding a bike then
you
are legally allowed to ride it it so stop ya bitching cage driving scum

no you stop using the brakes your bike is equipped with ,
you already anticipated he would make that move and had slowed accordingly
and since there is stopped traffic ahead you would have already been slowing

no you need to go for rider training and wake up to yourself

 

IIRC the keep left unless overtaking only applies for 80 k and above

i have never heard in my life of someone being booked for overtaking on the
left

but i have seen someone being booked for not keeping left
(shane or spooky had a vid of it a few years back )

 

BZZZTT... if you are in your lane and the other vehicle is in their lane it's
not called overtaking.. its called driving in your lane, regardless which side
you're on.

Nev..
'03 ZX12R

 

Hello, Nev..!
You wrote on Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:59:42 +1100:

N> MickK wrote:

??>> Unless the law has changed since I got my license (and there's a good
??>> chance it has), it used to clearly state you could not overtake on the
??>> left regardless. In theory, this included dual lane roads, freeways
??>> etc., however, in reality, the police turned a blind eye to this when
??>> it occurred. I suppose thats why we ended up with all those signs
??>> around that read "keep left unless overtaking". Has this changed or
??>> are the bus lanes on the right?

N> BZZZTT... if you are in your lane and the other vehicle is in their lane
N> it's not called overtaking.. its called driving in your lane, regardless
N> which side you're on.

N> Nev..
N> '03 ZX12R

Sorry Nev, I believe you are wrong on this one.

Mick

 

Well it depends on what time frame you need to have them back in the
datacentre by - which would presumably be a rate going out faster than
the rate they're being taken. 2Gb or so of digipics is going to suck a
bit of bandwidth if you need them all dumped in a hurry...

Ie bandwidth isn't free - if you still reckon it is can i have dark
fibre to my home please*

JL
*with the other end connected to my isp before someone tries to
outsmartarse me

 

True, bandwidth isn't free, but it's cheap, and so is storage. There is no
need for the images to be transmitted back to the data centre at a rate faster
than that which they are taken, because (ok, I'm making an assumption about
Sydney bus lanes here based on Melbourne bus lanes) the bus lane is only
enforced for about 25 hours per week.. that gives the camera 140+ hours of
idle time to send the images back.

Nev..
'03 ZX12R

 

if its _dark_ fibre, it doesn't make any difference whos on the other
end John...

big (smartarse? me?)

 

Care to link to a rule which backs you up?

I'm guessing you learnt to drive in the UK, where I believe the rules
_are_ as you suggest. Here (at least in NSW) you are perfectly entitled
to drive (at or below the speed limit) past slower traffic in lanes to
your right. (and, if the road you're on is an 80km or faster zone, its
actually illegal to drive in the right hand lane, the "keep left unless
overtaking" rule is automatically in effect)

big

 

Hello, Iain!
You wrote on Thu, 30 Dec 2004 12:24:43 +1100:

IC> In article <41d28fc4$0$30483$>,

??>> Hello, Nev..!
??>> You wrote on Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:59:42 +1100:
??>>
N>>> MickK wrote:
??>>
??>>>> Unless the law has changed since I got my license (and there's a
??>>>> good chance it has), it used to clearly state you could not overtake
??>>>> on the left regardless. In theory, this included dual lane roads,
??>>>> freeways etc., however, in reality, the police turned a blind eye to
??>>>> this when it occurred. I suppose thats why we ended up with all
??>>>> those signs around that read "keep left unless overtaking". Has
??>>>> this changed or are the bus lanes on the right?
??>>
N>>> BZZZTT... if you are in your lane and the other vehicle is in their
N>>> lane it's not called overtaking.. its called driving in your lane,
N>>> regardless which side you're on.
??>>
N>>> Nev..
N>>> '03 ZX12R
??>>
??>> Sorry Nev, I believe you are wrong on this one.

IC> Care to link to a rule which backs you up?

Unfortunately, not everything can be found on the internet.

IC> I'm guessing you learnt to drive in the UK, where I believe the rules
IC> _are_ as you suggest. Here (at least in NSW) you are perfectly entitled
IC> to drive (at or below the speed limit) past slower traffic in lanes to
IC> your right. (and, if the road you're on is an 80km or faster zone, its
IC> actually illegal to drive in the right hand lane, the "keep left unless
IC> overtaking" rule is automatically in effect)

Well, it wasn't the UK but it was another country. I could ask you to do the same (prove it), however, it would be pointless as I don't believe you would find the actual rule I am talking about. I'm not arguing that you can move past traffic in lanes to your right, of course you can - we all do it, I'm arguing that you can't overtake in the left hand lane because if memory serves me correctly, when you get pinged for lane splitting, they book you for overtaking on the left _regardless_ of whether or not a lane exists on the left hand side or not. Having only briefly viewed a fine for this (a mate copped it), the wording was something to the effect of overtaking on the left, as well as, driving in a manner dangerous... blah blah. They pinged him for something else as well but I can't remember what it was. How the police differentiate between moving in lanes and overtaking in lanes, I don't know but that's the crux of the issue.


Mick

 

Which internet are you looking on? It's pretty easy to find legislation on
the internet. I think most Australian legislation is available in searchable
online databases.

LOL !!! That is the best attempt at proving one's case that I've heard this
year. "The rule I'm talking about exists, but don't bother looking because
you won't find it." With slight modification you could have lived forever in
the internet by creating MickK's Corollary to Godwin's Law "The rule I'm
talking about exists but don't bother looking for it because the Nazis
obliterated it as part of their scorched earth policy"

Yes of course they ping you for overtaking on the left, if you overtook
someone on the left while lane splitting, but we're not talking about lane
splitting, we're discussing driving down the road in your own lane and moving
past another vehicle which is travelling down the road in it's own lane to the
right of your lane.

Nev..
'03 ZX12R

 

Of course it would be pointless... Laws generally only specify what is illegal
or the bounds of what is legal, rather than every possible permutation of what
is legal, so there will be no law which specifically states how you _may_ pass
another vehicle, only laws which define how you _may_not_ pass another
vehicle. By your reckoning there is one law which says you will be fined for
exceed the speed limit, and another law which says you will not be fined for
not exceeding the speed limit.

Nev..
'03 ZX12R

 

the same (prove it), however, it would be pointless as I don't believe you
would find the actual rule I am talking about. I'm not arguing that you can
move past traffic in lanes to your right, of course you can - we all do it,
I'm arguing that you can't overtake in the left hand lane because if memory
serves me correctly, when you get pinged for lane splitting, they book you
for overtaking on the left _regardless_ of whether or not a lane exists on
the left hand side or not. Having only briefly viewed a fine for this (a
mate copped it), the wording was something to the effect of overtaking on
the left, as well as, driving in a manner dangerous... blah blah. They
pinged him for something else as well but I can't remember what it was. How
the police differentiate between moving in lanes and overtaking in lanes, I
don't know but that's the crux of the issue.

I think the issue with splitting on the left hand side arises from the act
of people moving leftwards to get away from the road, into other
roads/driveways, hence it not being a safe idea to be on that side. Police
aren't robots, they usually make judgement calls. I'm sure you wouldn't
complain if one of their judgement calls reduced a fine you were about to
recieve into just a warning.
If you know it's wrong, don't do it, you're a big boy.

TB
PS. try and be more specific (or less vague) when trying to quote alledged
facts...

 

Actually there is a law in Victoria (you will be able to find it if you search
the internet, it's not invisible) which specifically states that you must
drive as far to the left of your lane as practicable. Therefore anyone being
passed on the left hand side is failing to drive to the left and is committing
an offence of their own. The law specifically exempts motorcycles. Riders
can use whichever part of the lane they choose.

Nev..
'03 ZX12R

 

In aus.motorcycles on Thu, 30 Dec 2004 12:57:45 +1100

If his wheels were between the white line and the passenger door, than
he was overtaking on the left.

Which is allowed if the car you are overtaking is turning right, but not
otherwise.

If youe mate was lanesplitting then clearly the left lane wasn't clear,
and I bet that his wheels did indeed move over to between the white line
and the passenger door at some point.


Zebee

 

Hello, Zebee!
You wrote on Thu, 30 Dec 2004 03:56:26 GMT:

ZJ> In aus.motorcycles on Thu, 30 Dec 2004 12:57:45 +1100
??>> Well, it wasn't the UK but it was another country. I could ask you to
??>> do the same (prove it), however, it would be pointless as I don't
??>> believe you would find the actual rule I am talking about. I'm not
??>> arguing that you can move past traffic in lanes to your right, of
??>> course you can - we all do it, I'm arguing that you can't overtake in
??>> the left hand lane because if memory serves me correctly, when you get
??>> pinged for lane splitting, they book you for overtaking on the left
??>> _regardless_ of whether or not a lane exists on the left hand side or
??>> not. Having only briefly viewed a fine for this (a mate copped it),
??>> the wording was something to the effect of overtaking on the left, as
??>> well as, driving in a manner dangerous... blah blah. They pinged him
??>> for something else as well but I can't remember what it was. How the
??>> police differentiate between moving in lanes and overtaking in lanes,
??>> I don't know but that's the crux of the issue.

ZJ> If his wheels were between the white line and the passenger door, than
ZJ> he was overtaking on the left.

ZJ> Which is allowed if the car you are overtaking is turning right, but
ZJ> not otherwise.

ZJ> If youe mate was lanesplitting then clearly the left lane wasn't clear,
ZJ> and I bet that his wheels did indeed move over to between the white
ZJ> line and the passenger door at some point.

Possibly, he was actually in the left lane and split between the left and middle lanes.


Mick

 

Hello, TB!
You wrote on Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:54:19 +1100:

T> I think the issue with splitting on the left hand side arises from the
T> act of people moving leftwards to get away from the road, into other
T> roads/driveways, hence it not being a safe idea to be on that side.
T> Police aren't robots, they usually make judgement calls. I'm sure you
T> wouldn't complain if one of their judgement calls reduced a fine you
T> were about to recieve into just a warning.
T> If you know it's wrong, don't do it, you're a big boy.

Your probably correct, however, it just goes to show the relative ambiguities even has in relation to the law.

T> TB
T> PS. try and be more specific (or less vague) when trying to quote
T> alledged facts...

I wasn't an alledged fact, it was something I had on a driving test a long time ago. It was drummed into us - no overtaking on the left _never ever_. This included cars turning right because if they didn't end up turning right and you hit them, it was your fault _regardless_ of circumstances.

Mick

 

Hello, Nev..!
You wrote on Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:38:11 +1100:

??>> Unfortunately, not everything can be found on the internet.

N> Which internet are you looking on? It's pretty easy to find
N> legislation on the internet. I think most Australian legislation is
N> available in searchable online databases.

As someone who used to work for the Govt, I can tell you that is most definately _not_ the case. A great many things are available on the net, but certainly not everything like you are trying to imply.

??>> I could ask you to do the same (prove it), however, it would be
??>> pointless as I don't believe you would find the actual rule I am
??>> talking about.

N> LOL !!! That is the best attempt at proving one's case that I've heard
N> this year. "The rule I'm talking about exists, but don't bother looking
N> because you won't find it." With slight modification you could have
N> lived forever in the internet by creating MickK's Corollary to Godwin's
N> Law "The rule I'm talking about exists but don't bother looking for it
N> because the Nazis obliterated it as part of their scorched earth policy"

But I don't have to prove my case because I am not trying to prove anything. I just stated something I was taught while doing a driving test. This rule may well be on the internet, however, some things in life you just remember and don't need to spend your precious time searching the net for something you know to be true just because some asshole says "show me the quote". If they don't want to believe it, so what, who gives a shit let them try and find it, I'm not wasting my time for them.

N> Yes of course they ping you for overtaking on the left, if you overtook
N> someone on the left while lane splitting, but we're not talking about
N> lane splitting, we're discussing driving down the road in your own lane
N> and moving past another vehicle which is travelling down the road in
N> it's own lane to the right of your lane.

I realise this. I do it myself, however, it doesn't make it right or legal just because many people do it. When you overtake someone on the right, you normally move out of your lane and into another to do it. When you overtake someone on the left (assuming there is another lane to the left of you), you move out of your lane and into the left one to do it. My point is overtaking on the left is illegal AFAIK. When does it cease being overtaking and become moving in the left lane?


Mick