My first bike: Helmet & California License Question

Discussion in 'Bay Area Bikers' started by Anne P. Mitchell, Esq., Sep 2, 2007.

  1. Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.

    pinbob Guest

    OMG you must be joking. In my ca msf basic rider class, every single person
    passed, most having had no experience. Some with a few points to spare but
    they couldn't even brake nor corner nor stay in the turning box or even
    swerve through the cones or anything. Certainly almost none of them could
    handle a liter sized bike at any speed.

    Maybe you took a different msf class?

    The one I took was two days of two or three hours of "classroom"
    instruction where the self indulging so called riding coach kept gloating
    about his motorcycle accomplishments mainly what I remember being he rode
    in the rain. And then two half days of riding around a huge parking lot the
    size of the aircraft carrier hornet where nothing but a passing dog could
    possibly be considered an obstruction. By our fourth meeting, we nicknamed
    it motorcycle kindergarten, again.

    The funniest part was how the "riding coach" kept telling us how "expert"
    he was. Having come from a cold weather country, I can assure you that
    riding in the rain, even if it was a veritable downpour, does not qualify a
    msf coach to declare himself an expert in all things motorcycles. He even
    said the reason for shifting weight when encountering obstacles was to
    "lower" the center of gravity! Ha!

    Besides, he had no clue about the laws regarding lane splitting. He said
    you had to do it below 20 mph. Ha! What bullshit he spouted. He insisted we
    check the fuel cock even though half the donated bikes didn't even have
    one. Ha! What a pompous ass. And I'm supposed to learn biking from him?????

    I truly fear for my life if someone passes any california msf class and
    rides a bike within a mile of me. At least if they pass the california dmv
    riding test, they have to be prove themselves to be absolute experts on
    their own bike, not a bunch of kindergarten kids on a rented 200 cc toy.
     
    pinbob, Sep 6, 2007
    #41
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  2. Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.

    pinbob Guest

    You've got to be joking!

    Let me get this straight. You learned from the msf class how to get on a
    bike without dropping it? Oh wait. You learned how to get on your bike and
    you drop it only rarely?

    If you haven't by your own words proven that the california msf basic rider
    class is nothing more than motorcycle kindergarten, I can't imagine a
    better description!
     
    pinbob, Sep 6, 2007
    #42
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  3. Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.

    Timberwoof Guest

    Let me get this straight: You think that's the only thing I learned. And
    you didn't seek any independent verification of the MSF class
    curriculum. Either that or you forgot all the details of the drills that
    other people who took the class reported. So much for your critical
    thinking.
     
    Timberwoof, Sep 6, 2007
    #43
  4. Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.

    J. Clarke Guest

    I suspect that if you talk to MSF about it they'll agree that it's
    "motorcycle kindergarten". What do you _expect_ it to be?
     
    J. Clarke, Sep 6, 2007
    #44
  5. Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.

    J. Clarke Guest

    Uh, what needs to be "fixed" and why?
     
    J. Clarke, Sep 6, 2007
    #45
  6. Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.

    barb Guest

    Geez! Sounds like you were born with a throttle and brake in your hand.
    You have to start somewhere, and yes, getting on a bike can be one of
    those things some people need to learn.

    --
    barb
    Chaplain, ARSCCwdne

    buy my book!
    http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=1198812

    read my blog!
    http://xenubarb.blogspot.com/
     
    barb, Sep 6, 2007
    #46
  7. Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.

    barb Guest

    Why would they? It's a class for beginners. Where do you usually begin
    school? Kindergarten. It's not a *bad* thing!

    --
    barb
    Chaplain, ARSCCwdne

    buy my book!
    http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=1198812

    read my blog!
    http://xenubarb.blogspot.com/
     
    barb, Sep 6, 2007
    #47
  8. Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.

    barb Guest

    Maybe he thinks they should teach you to drop from the balcony above the
    saloon, pop a wheelie and ride off into the sunset with a hearty "Hi ho
    Sillllverrrr!

    --
    barb (who WAS that masked man?)
    Chaplain, ARSCCwdne

    buy my book!
    http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=1198812

    read my blog!
    http://xenubarb.blogspot.com/
     
    barb, Sep 6, 2007
    #48
  9. Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.

    Beav Guest

    Those types worry me. Where are the coaches who learned to ride WITHOUT
    throwing themselves down the road?
    I'm sure they did.
    But isn't that the pouint of doing the course?

    I will need much more practice in the parking lot for sure.

    Who'll be your instructor now though? Obviously not an MSF "qualified"
    instructor.


    --
    Beav

    VN 750
    Zed 1000
    OMF# 19
     
    Beav, Sep 6, 2007
    #49
  10. Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.

    Beav Guest

    Does this mean that going on an MSF course can result in a person being
    taught by someone who could pass on bad habits? My God, it's just like
    getting a friend in to do the instructing.


    You can't have a lot of
    And how would one know before they went? At least if someone has her brother
    doing the intial helping out, she'll have a rough idea of his capabilities
    as both a rider and an instructor.
    So the MSF isn't what it should be?
    Absolute shite course then. And I make no apologies for saying that. If
    someone comes to me for instruction, they CAN ride properly, confidently and
    safely and I'm not a "class". To run a course on motorcycle riding and then
    have the "passed out" students take themselves off to a parking lot is
    bordering on the utterly ridiculous. Actually, forget the "bordering", it IS
    ridiculous.

    Not much point when all of us ride IN traffic.
    And how, exactly, does the MSF course differ? You've already said yourself
    that you advise your students to stay away from traffic and practise in a
    parking lot.



    --
    Beav

    VN 750
    Zed 1000
    OMF# 19
     
    Beav, Sep 6, 2007
    #50
  11. Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.

    Beav Guest

    No-one ever taught me how to get on a bike and I'm ALWAYS falling off the
    thing:)
    So that's one woman out of how many students?
    Yeah, but you're 98 now;)
    My wife would fucking kill me if I used language like that. It's "ner" :)
    I'll keep quiet about breaking HER bones though.
    Unlike the MSF coach who doesn't know basic road rules as they apply in
    Calif, you mean?


    --
    Beav

    VN 750
    Zed 1000
    OMF# 19
     
    Beav, Sep 6, 2007
    #51
  12. Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.

    J. Clarke Guest

    All youngsters. MSF hasn't been around all that long.
    When I learned to ride, the way I learned was that I got on my nice
    shiny new Honda 400 at the dealer and prayed every inch of the way
    home that I would survive the experience. All the training I got was
    "here's the throttle, here's the clutch, here's the front brake,
    here's the back brake, here's the shift, good luck". It had at that
    time been more than ten years since I'd even been on a bicycle and I
    had about 20 miles to ride in fairly busy traffic. It's a miracle
    that I did make it home.

    Compared to where I was, MayQueen is at this point vastly more
    skilled. That's the point. Not that it makes you an expert but that
    you're far, far better off than learning by wobbling home from the
    dealer.
    The class taught her what to practice, she doesn't need an instructor
    looking over her shoulder constantly while she practices.
     
    J. Clarke, Sep 6, 2007
    #52
  13. Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.

    pinbob Guest

    Hi David,
    Yes. I know EXACTLY what the California Vehicle Code states about "Lane
    Splitting". The answer (drumroll) ... ... ... absolutly nothing!

    Yep. There's no specific law that says you can share lanes and there's no
    specific law that says you can't. So, for example, two 40-foot 18 wheelers
    "could" share lanes legally if they were to fit between the lines. More to
    the point, two or three or four motorcycles and a car could share a lane,
    were they to fit.

    Now, all the other laws still apply when you are lane sharing. For example,
    if you're "reckless" or if you cross solid lines or if you ride on the
    shoulder or ... or ... well ... you get the point.

    The only law about lane sharing is that there isn't a law prohibiting lane
    sharing. The MSF class got it all wrong.

    At least, did I get it right?
     
    pinbob, Sep 6, 2007
    #53
  14. Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.

    J. Clarke Guest

    Exactly. I know a 60,000 mile a year rider who takes the ERC every
    year and every year she learns something.
     
    J. Clarke, Sep 6, 2007
    #54
  15. Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.

    Bill Palmer Guest

    I would think, given the Ca DMV keyhole test is for experts only, and given
    you get zero tolerance, that the MSF class wouldn't be almost diametrically
    opposed in that there are meters of tolerance in the maneuvers and that
    it's for the equivalent of motorcycle kindergarten.

    Is it only me that the difference (expert stuntman vs kindergarten rider)
    is telling? It's all about M-O-N-E-Y and nothing else!
     
    Bill Palmer, Sep 6, 2007
    #55
  16. Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.

    Bill Palmer Guest

    You're not from California are you?
    This kind of spouted nonsense is what kills me in the California catch-22.

    CALIFORNIA CATCH-22:
    1. You need a license.
    2. You can't pass the ridiculous CA DMV lollipop test because they both
    test extreme stunt skills and they grade within zero inches of crossing a
    line
    3. So, being an experienced rider on a liter-sized bike, you opt for the
    MSF class
    3. But nooooo ... you can NOT take the ERC: Experienced Rider Course.
    4. Nope. The MSF wouldn't make all the money it makes on the Basic Rider
    Course class. Nobody who already knew how to ride would then take the BRC.
    5. So, you MUST take the Basic Rider Class to get your license.
    6. The joke is everyone passes if they can breath and blink at the same
    time! Many yards are given leeway in the tests.

    After all that, you have no desire whatsoever to take another ridiculous
    MSF class but at least you have your license.

    This, my dear, is the California Catch 22!
     
    Bill Palmer, Sep 6, 2007
    #56
  17. Hi barb,
    You missed the point.

    Assume the rider is VERY EXPERIENCED but out of state and merely wishes to
    have a California motorcycle license?

    The "system" forces them to take the "kindergarten" MSF class.

    There is no other viable alternative.

    They can't take the advanced rider class because it doesn't count (Reason?
    $$$$ into the MSF coiffers) ... and they can't take the DMV keyhole test on
    their own bike because it's ridiculous and it isn't worth dropping the bike
    in the very many hours of practice it would take to consistently pass the
    test enough to reach the 90% point given they give zero tolerance.

    So, the point is for experienced riders, the California system is
    ridiculous.

    I do agree with you for the basic riders but we're not talking about them
    in this discussion, are we?
     
    Michael Black, Sep 6, 2007
    #57
  18. Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.

    Timberwoof Guest

    Well said, and good on you. :)

    Here's what I got from the course: Techniques for handling a motorcycle,
    strategies for dealing with traffic, and drills to go out and do on my
    own to increase my skills. The MSF class doesn't make one an expert
    rider, but it does teach enough that, with practice, one can survive the
    first few months of riding.

    But you know what? I expect that Beav will find some way to pick apart
    what you said and present your words as proof that MSF teachers don't
    know anything. But Beav, God's gift to motorcyclists, is not whom we
    have to convince. ;-)
     
    Timberwoof, Sep 6, 2007
    #58
  19. Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.

    Bob Myers Guest

    OK, so just to get this straight - we're talking about "experienced
    riders" who, in all that experience, never gained enough in the
    way of low-speed manuevering skills so as to enable them to pass
    the "keyhole" test?

    Simple "experience" SHOULDN'T count anything toward getting
    your license unless that experience gave you the minimum expected
    skill level.

    Bob M.
     
    Bob Myers, Sep 6, 2007
    #59
  20. Anne P. Mitchell, Esq.

    Timberwoof Guest

    I suspect you haven't ever taken then MSF course, or even taken the free
    alternative to watch one being taught. So you don't know anything about
    how the class is run, yet you consider yourself some kind of expert on
    what's wrong with the MSF.
     
    Timberwoof, Sep 6, 2007
    #60
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