MRAA (ie MRAV) bashing

Australia joined because the USA asked us to, our Government complied
because it is a good idea for the strongest kid in the schoolyard to owe you
a favour when the schoolyard bullies live just to the north of you and you
cannot afford all the new gadgets that would defend yourself if they decided
to have a go at you. (personally I would have stayed out of it, but I would
have also stayed out of Timor, I am rather sick of our taxes being used by
Governments of all colours propping up corrupt regimes that fail to feed
their own population) I suspect the Trade Negotiations may also have had
something to do with it but perhaps that is too cynical.

The USA went in because Saddam was thumbing his nose at the world doing lots
of nasty things to his people and no longer wanted to play nice with the USA
(the strongest kid in the schoolyard) or the UN. Saddam was sitting on about
1/3 of the worlds reserves of oil and as the USA was the worlds greatest
consumer of the stuff they could not allow these reserves to be in the
control of an unstable element that could hold them to ransom. (In my view
GWB's drop in popularity has a lot to do with increasing Gas prices).

WMD's were reported by intelligence services(CIA et al), perhaps they had
them perhaps not, (perhaps they were sent to another country like most of
his Air Force in Gulf War MK1) Saddam had used them to kill lots of people
in the past, and being Chemical & Biological agents conventional superpowers
were not impressed because he was not playing with nice clean Nuclear
Weapons like all the other kids.(and not buying them off them, Saddam should
have gone to India, Pakistan or North Korea to shop for some real tasty
Bombs).

The trouble with relying upon internal intelligence sources is that they
often give the sort of misinformation that provokes the type of action that
the internal spy wants (removal of the current dictator so a new improved
version can take over), this type of misinformation from Ex-Nazi's in the
employ of the CIA is credited with starting and prolonging the Cold War.
Give a Spy a bucket load of cash and suddenly you will find he has lots of
juicy information to sell you (even if he has to make it up).

Now before many left wing loonies go barking at the moon, this is my opinion
and not some party line, contra to popular belief I do not have a red phone
that hooks me up to JWH or the White House, although a few weeks ago a state
security guard in George Street had a long hard look at me.

Was the decision to invade (attack, have a go at, enforce sanctions, UN
resolutions etc) valid, I suppose that depends upon you point of view, the
Australian people returned John Howard with an increased majority and even
handed over the Senate after this (by the way don't blame me for this they
still only give me one vote), I don't know if that was a vote of approval
for his actions or the Australian people don't give a stuff in times of near
full employment, economic stability and a colour TV in every room. Perhaps
we should blame an inept opposition for that one, or perhaps the collapse of
the Democrats, take your choice.

Boxer

 

I thought the schoolyard bully asked us.

Theo

 

Depends which gang you belong to, its a point of view thing.

Boxer

 

In the schools I went to, the strong kids were pretty cavalier about
their favour bank overdraughts... and why shouldn't they have been? What
were their creditors going to do; make them get even?

When we asked the US for support during the Malay emergency and the West
Papua Crisis, we were told to go jump. A couple of years later, our
troops were in Vietnam.

 

I will own up to having considered Venezuela as a destination. Not perfect
(geez, what is?) but they try harder.

Gary

 

Never realised Wooton had that much influence...

Bill

 

I don't have a suit, maybe that's it...

Gary

 

maybe Bill.. could it be that the judges read AMCN? and they have seen
the pic of Knobdoodles arse?

Coopers mate?

Johno

 

How about 'no worker will be worse off'?

Bill

 

No that was no child once thrown overboard will live in poverty.

Boxer

 

So *that's* what's wrong with the justice system, they've seen the
santa pic..

Ta, I'll have a pale and a floater thanks

 

The ones in detention camps?

Bill

 

G-S wrote:
when's it your turn? I gotta fill it into my diary

 

It comes down to this; *The number one reason we invaded Iraq is because
Iraq wouldn't permit UN weapons inspections.*

You can put your fingers in your ears and shout LALALALALALALA as long
as you like but it is not a revision of history to recall that the UNSC
voted *unanimously for resolution 1441* and held Iraq to be in breach of
their obligations.

http://tinyurl.com/cq7ws a.k.a
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2002/SC7564.doc.htm

"SECURITY COUNCIL HOLDS IRAQ IN ‘MATERIAL BREACH’ OF DISARMAMENT
OBLIGATIONS,

OFFERS FINAL CHANCE TO COMPLY, UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTING RESOLUTION 1441 (2002)

Instructs Weapons Inspections to Resume within 45 Days,
Recalls Repeated Warning of ‘Serious Consequences’ for Continued Violations"

*The number one reason we invaded Iraq is because Iraq wouldn't permit
UN weapons inspections.*

You can quote me on that.

Email me your address again Clem, I've got something to send you. (It's
not a bomb and it's got nothing to do with politics...)

 

Not at all. Having a ball, sitting here on the porch pluggin' them damn
moonbats. It ain't right, seeing the world upside down and urinatin' all
over 'emselves like that.

*The number one reason we invaded Iraq is because Iraq wouldn't permit
UN weapons inspections*.

That was Iraq's obligation.

Hans Blix said something to the effect that the production of mustard
gas is not like the production of marmalade. You are supposed to know
what you did with it.

It's not that they *couldn't* prove they didn't have something, it was
that they made little attempt to comply and often were actively
obstructing weapons inspections that would have shown them to be free of
WMD.

It wasn't a lack of evidence they acted upon. It was a breach of a
ceasefire agreement, basically.

Ta.

 

More like TOLD, I think......
or have I stumbled into the wrong thread?

regards,
CrazyCam

 

As a matter of fact, they were.

That Iraq really *didn't* have any isn't the point. Iraq had to account
for them. They didn't.

It's not that they couldn't, it's that they wouldn't.

No they didn't. You forgot the bit about "under international supervision".

That's what Iraq had to tell the UN. They didn't.

In regard to Saddam's nuclear ambitions, Iraqi Nuclear Scientist, Mahdi
Obeidi, who had parts of a centrifuge buried in his garden, wrote a
piece entitled "Saddam, the Bomb and Me" in which he said;

"Was Iraq a potential threat to the United States and the world? Threat
is always a matter of perception, but our nuclear program could have
been reinstituted at the snap of Saddam Hussein's fingers."

There's that tricky, hard to see, fine print on the bottom of the eye
chart bit, "under international supervision".

That's what Iraq had to tell the UN. They didn't.

The onus was on Iraq to prove that to UN weapons inspectors. They failed.

That's what Iraq had to tell the UN. They didn't.

Iraq failed to do so.

That's what Iraq had to tell the UN. They didn't.

Verification was not achievable given the lack of cooperation from the
Iraqi regime.

That's what Iraq had to tell the UN. They didn't. This sinking in yet?...

Iraq failed to do so.

Abu Nidal was responsible for the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over
Lockerbie. Abu Nidal was known to be living in Iraq at least from 1999
up until his death in 2002. In 2001 Jordan's state security court
sentenced him to death by hanging, along with four of his followers, for
his role in the January 1994 assassination of a Jordanian diplomat in
Beirut Iraqi authorities refused to extradite him to Jordan. Nor did
Iraq make any attempt to punish him for the numerous Americans, British
and French citizens, and other nationals injured or killed in ANO (Abu
Nidal Organization) attacks over the years.

Abu Nidal was given a house, office and monthly salary by the Iraqi regime.

Abdul Rahman Yasin was indicted for the bombing of the World Trade
Centre in New York in 1993 but had escaped and fled the US. He fled to
Iraq via Jordan and was also given a house, office and monthly salary by
the Iraqi regime.

Another example of Iraq providing safe haven to a known terrorist leader
is the case of Abu al-Abbas (Mahmoud Abbas), secretary-general of the
Palestine Liberation Front (PLF). Abbas was responsible for the October
1985 hijacking of the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro, and the killing
of elderly disabled passenger Leon Klinghoffer, an American citizen. In
1998, within the framework of the Oslo agreements, Israel permitted
Abbas to return to the Gaza Strip. Fearing an extradition request by the
United States, he chose the confines of Baghdad instead.

In October 2000, Abbas announced on Iraqi television that the PLF would
resume confrontations with Israel; this, following the "call made by
President Saddam Hussein to open the door for volunteering [which] is an
order to fight for us." Iraq recruited and trained PLF activists in
Iraqi camps and equipped them with weapons, which they then used to
carry out terrorist attacks in Haifa (April 2001) and the West Bank
(July 2001). In July 2001, Mohammed Kandil, a Palestinian from the West
Bank, was arrested upon the discovery that he was recruited by Iraqi
intelligence in order to build a terrorist infrastructure in the West Bank.

Iraq's proxy organization, the Arab Liberation Front (ALF), had the
specific mission of encouraging suicide operations against Israel from
the West Bank and Gaza. One of ALF's leaders, al-Hajj Rateb al-Amleh,
was responsible for providing material support to the families of
Palestinian suicide terrorists. This support included public events at
which the presentation of $25,000 Iraqi checks payable to the families
of "martyrs" was used to glorify Saddam Hussein and encourage solidarity
between the Iraqi regime and the Palestinian people against their common
"Zionist" and "imperialist" enemies.

They failed to do so.

They failed to do so.

It wasn't just about WMDs.

 

You mean the number one excuse? Funny about the oil in Iraq. If the
yanks (and little john) were serious about WMDs they would have
invaded North Korea, and if they were serious about evil dictators
they would have overthrown the Myanmar regime by now.

Bill

 

You could always got to tafe and get some certs in healthcare. Your first
aid and that rudimentary stuff and try it for a year".

Hammo

 

On 10/11/05 10:56 PM, in reference to

Carr?

Hammo