MRAA (ie MRAV) bashing

No I mean WE!

Sometimes one can make a better decision by looking at things from the
outside.
Martin himself described a stupid decision made by members there and then.
Do me a favour Hammo
Agree to disagree you aint gonna change my mind about the incompetence
of the mra in vic.

 

Read Martins example as one case.
Read their problems trying to silence DC who still claims to be their voice.
Read about their inability to stop wire rope barriers.
Read about their inability to stop the $50 levy or have a say as how
that money should be spent.
Read about yadda yadda yadda
The list goes on and I can't be bothered going through it.
The reputation of the MRAvic is so tarnished that they are irrelevant.

I think you have an issue with me speaking on behalf of others.
Lets just say there are like-minded people here in Melbourne who have
the same views as myself and I am just one of the collective with the
same opinion.
you have an issue with semantics not I
I am voicing my opinions after careful deliberation and study and whn I
mention we I mean we because others share my view. I don't claim to be
their spokesperson.
(you been hanging round PaulH or something?)

This is the last I have to say on this beacause my initil post was
designed to raise debate and it hasdone that, some very good viewpoints
were bandied around from both sides and I haven't been convinced either
way either from this forum, in the flesh and from other forums.

I've got to go and mow the lawns now.

 

Look, I don't want this to get into semantics et al., but you don't speak on
behalf of all those involved.

Yes, it does create a different viewpoint. And has you have pointed out, it
is *one's* viewpoint, not the collective.

I'm not going to attempt to change your mind, I am still yet to be convinced
that you represent all those people here. Or is *we* all ausmoto members
in melb, or anywhere really?

Perhaps I am bored with these claims of incompetence with no real proof. I
am also just a little more than curious as to why you are the spokesperson
when you admit to never being involved?

It's almost an ethical dilemma.....

Hammo

 

In aus.motorcycles on Tue, 01 Nov 2005 11:05:40 +1100

I am not sure how well they can do that short of taking him to court.
Revoking life membership if he doesn't behave as asked would be a start.

NO one else has managed to stop that either. The MCC of NSW is trying
to get funding for research, but somehow their application keeps getting
"lost".

Again a hard one. The Tas bikers managed it, but the political
situation there's quite different. That said, they got good lobbying
done - talked to the right pollies, found a slant that the papers went
with and so on.

I seem to recall that there's a committee supposed to have the MRA on it
that is supposed to be looking into things like this, and it doesn't
meet?

Of course what would help people's view of the MRA-VIC is a list of
recent successes.

Committees they are on, things they've got done, people they are talking
with, what's in the pipeline, things like that.

If the only info people have is "they are useless" and "don't talk about
us like that" then I'm not surprised few people are happy with them.

So what has the MRA-Vic done in the last 2 years that they count as
positive steps?

Zebee

 

? Did you really think that anyone would be able to stop that? C'mon, are
you really that naive?

Strange that for such an irrelevant body, you have so much to say about it.

I thought the irony was delicious.

Good to see you get off your ass.

Hammo

 

$50 levy protest ride, scheduled for evening peak hour, involving massed
riders doing laps of the Burnley Tunnel, a piece of road motorcyclists
get to use for free, but which the car commuters whose trip home the
protest ride delayed have to pay for.

Way to win the public over...

 

?? That's it?

Critical Mass be damned!


Hammo

 

Where would Sir like the goalposts moved next, please?

 

Zebee Johnstone wrote:

I think it should be that anyone else considers positive steps.

Remember MCC crowing about their "grand success" of getting the
ammendments to the epa's noise laws tossed out? :-(

Just 'cos the MCC seez it's a win doesn't actually make it so.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

What would satisfy you as 'proof'?

Eyewitness evidence of incompetence by DC? Because I was an eyewitness
and I've discussed one major example and mentioned in passing some others.

You mentioned you had spoken to Sam (who was another witness to some
problems caused by DC's methods), what impression did you get from her
about DC?


G-S

 

That was considered at one stage, the costs were a problem though.

I agree strongly with this, but it doesn't show any signs of happening.

Yah... this is one we are looking like never winning. The government
see a chance to spin these as increased road safety whilst saving money
over other methods.

It wasn't handled very well here... and there wasn't agreement on what
should be done. I suspect (although I know many would disagree with
me), that we would have been more effective pushing for better
'accounting' of where the money was being spent.

Others thought they could stop it... that split opinion and left the
gumbiment with a clear field.

From memory there is a committee that has road user groups on it that
meets, but motorcycle representation is 'covered' by RACV or VACC... of
course neither group 'represents' motorcyclists. The bus industry has a
similar problem with some road user committees... they are claimed to be
represented by road transport groups (but they are trucking groups).

I'm not sure what the solution to that is given that the claimed reasons
for this happening is that they cannot include representatives from
every sub group or the committee would become unwieldy.

No idea... *waits*


G-S

 

How does the MCC go as far as getting consensus from the different
interest groups? Do the different clubs find themselves being
marginalised by other groups? Is it hard to motivate people to be
interested in or become actively involved in aspects of motorcycling
that doesn't concern them? I know most road racers, enduro riders, road
riders etc tend to be pretty focussed on their own aspect of
motorcycling and not terribly interested in other areas... etc racers
and rec-reg trail riders aren't going to be very motivated to do much to
against changes which affect road riders registration or insurance
premiums.

Nev..
'03 ZX12R

 

I am on his mailing list and I have read nothing to suggest that he is
claiming to be the voice of anyone but himself. Do you say that just
because he lists "MRA life member" in his signature ? His sig also
lists that he is Ulysses Club member #21208 and the holder of a Medal of
the Order of Australia. Are you suggesting that he also claims to
represent the Ulysses Club and QEII as well?

Nev..
'03 ZX12R

 

In aus.motorcycles on Tue, 01 Nov 2005 19:24:03 +1100

There have been some arguments

THe clubs who send delegates get heard if the delegates speak up. The
main issue I can recall when there was argument was about toll protests
- what was suitable.

I recall the Clubman Tourers were against any protest causing disruption
in peak hour and others said how the hell else to make the point.

Eventually the "do it on a Sunday to show what might happen" idea got
up.

THere aren't many things that affect clubs in different ways. The Dual
Sports lot often have to remind people that road bikes aren't all there
is

What seems to happen is that a) the clubs send people who are into
lobbying. So the club members generally don't have to be interested as
long as they make sure the delegates are properly representing them and
b) people who don't care one way or the other keep quiet and only stand
up when they think their club isn't getting a fair go.

One example is rego - the dual sports guys want rec rego, the road
riders aren't affected but can see the point. The dual sports guys
don't want any answer to tolling that involves a levy on rego ditto the
country clubs, so there was a lot of discussion about how to frame
suggestions about toll alternatives so that dirt bikes and country bikes
weren't affected.

When it comes to something like rec rego, the dual sports guys are very
motivated, so they provide most of the manpower for it - someone for
committees, people to research other states, and so on. They get help
from the people who are experienced in dealing with committees, they get
their desires on the table with the others in general talks with the RTA
and govt and councils, and they get the clout of the MCC rather than
doing it on their own. It's not something that calls for mass action
by other riders, so others doing things for it doesn't come into play.

I can't think off hand of something where one or two clubs have wanted
something that isn't of interest to most but requires work from people
other than the exec and the clubs involved.

Loading zones for couriers for example. NOt affecting people other than
the couriers, but requesting that is part of the whole parking/councils
issue that has several people involved. The couriers put up a bod to
help with legwork, the dual sports couldn't care less so they don't get
involved.

There have certainly been robust discussions about protests and types of
action. Most times consensus is achieved, other times it hasn't been, I
don't think it's possible to get it all the time.

Zebee

 

Do you get involved in every shitfight he was in like a few years ago?
I "mysteriously" appeared in his mailing list and was then involved in
his bickering with past mra councils.
He had no right to get my details and then "involve" me in his shitfights.
Like i gave a shit what he did.
He is the main reason I would not join the mra and the fact he is a life
member really galls me.

 

That was a goalpost?

I am not of the point of view that suggests that protests are supposed to be
impotent. YMDV.

Hammo

 

This is a bit more interesting.
Curios as to how you got involved, if you were never involved?
Can you tell me more?

Cheers

H

 

A tad more openness wrt "incompetence" and "shitcanning" and anything else
that comes up.

Is some of this a bees to a honey pot stuff, or I hate Biaggi cos he is a
sook, stuff? ...or I wanted to this, but got voted down?

,,,,and then it becomes hearsay and subjective?

She was open about it and pointed out her views and beliefs for that time.
Scientists are usually good at that objective stuff and she was no
exception. There was also "you had to be there" stuff, it was clearly
marked and presented for balance.

It is all becoming a bit of a magical thing. "We" are all knowing of it and
were there, except when asked about specifics. Just ask my mate, who was
there, he'll tell you, what a scoundrel!

Drop me an email if it's not for public consumption.

Cheers

Hammo

 

I don't think I've ever claimed that I was 'all knowing' (about anything!).

If you would like another example of bad decision making by DC then I
will mention the story of how the MRA magazine 'morphed'.

At one time MRA Vic had a black and white news sheet type semi-pro
magazine produced for the members. This was before the time of easy (or
even possible) home colour... and before easy home typesetting could be
done (even for basic graphics and black and white). This 'mag' was
produced quarterly and was set up sort of like a newspaper but on A4
size paper folded and stapled. The magazine wasn't flash but it did the
job and the advertising revenue covered the costs of operation and
publication.

Along comes DC who wanted to 'up market' the magazine (against the
wishes and advice of many members... myself included).

Oh, and before you ask yes he did have a majority of people present vote
for it (he has passable political skills and is good at surrounding
himself with people who will support him when needed... people who tend
to get patted on the head and rewarded... martin mentioned a recent life
membership that was granted remember... that sort of thing).

I would argue however (with some justification I believe) that the
choices he made were not generally supported by the registers (or by the
active grass roots members at register level). So some many hundreds
of peoples views were outvoted by some tens of people at a 'Melbourne'
meeting. The rest of the thousands of the members probably weren't very
aware of the issue at the time.

Anyway... after a time this lovely looking color, glossy magazine
appeared (with little if any more advertising revenue than before)...
and started to suck up the accumulated reserves that MRA Vic had managed
to put aside during earlier committees.

This continued until it became obvious (even to blind Freddy) that the
bleeding of money couldn't continue and a ground swell of opinion
managed to have the production of the magazine stopped.

The other down side was we then had no magazine at all (the people doing
the older black and white mag had been pushed aside by the professionals
doing the color mag).

This was a bad decision by DC and cronies... it cost MRA Vic serious
money, and it pissed of _lots_ of members by creating an unsupportable
and then taking it away. People felt that by not getting any magazine
they were now getting less for thier membership funds (and they were).

These actions cost members.

There are some other examples... but I need to head off to work now ;-)


G-S

 

I give myself paid time off for firey stuff.

Theo