motorcycle vs car safety

Hi all,
I have been talking to my parents about getting a motorcycle here in
Canberra instead of driving to my course.

They are very stubborn and completely oppose my ideas because they believe
that motorcycles are very unsafe and have a greater chance of being hit than
cars do and you have a greater chance of getting injured.

From my own common sense i would think their conclusion is pretty accurate
but does anyone have any australian statistics about accidents related to
motorcycles?

I would think not alot can happen if you are only travelling at 60 - 70km/hr
but with no metal protection like in cars your risk of injury would be alot
greater.

Any info on the subject would be good.
Thanks

 

Well, they're right...

However, is a 1 in 10,000,000 chance of injury really that much safer than a
1 in 100,000 chance?
(assuming that bikes are full hundred times more dangerous than cars)

Also, who'd be buying the bike? You, with your own money, or them, for you,
with their money?
If the former, then, seriously, what are they going to do? Kick you out of
the house? Ground you?

I seem to recall something about the foremost experts on passive vehicle
safety, like people who design crumple zones for Mercedes, not social
science PhD's who have a paranoid fear of the steering wheel, agreeing that,
with present technology, anything over about an 80kph impact speed is
unsurvivable.

Cars aren't as safe as "people" think. Conversely, bikes aren't as
dangerous. Especially in a place like Canberra, where they might tailgate
and pull out without looking more than they do elsewhere, but at least there
are only about 20% as many of them as there are elsewhere.

If you think to yourself that it'd be a bit of all right to get a bike, then
just go out and do it.

 

So he cracks a window. Sheesh...

Although, Canberra's gone gaga for polished floorboards of late. He probably
lives in a house like that, which would make for practically endless
burnouts; neither the tyre nor the floor would wear that quickly.

 

If he buys his own bike, and they ground him, he's
gonna wear out the carpet in his bedroom in no time
flat - not to mention the potential for carbon
monoxide poisoning.

Bob

 

In aus.motorcycles on Wed, 03 Mar 2004 02:10:39 GMT

In NSW, motorcycles and cars crash at about the same rate. But riders
have more injuries.


training courses dropped the crash rates of learner riders by something
like 20%.

Yes, you do have a higher chance of being injured on a motorcycle.
However, an alert rider who has done good training courses and is riding
with brain in gear is very unlikely to be one of those stats.

You can't prove to your folks that you won't be hurt in any way but not
being hurt.

You might ask them why they don't wear bicycle helmets while driving
though....

Zebee

 

Well, there is some information concerning relative safety of motorcycles vs
other vehicles on the ATSB site:

http://www.atsb.gov.au/public/discuss/cross_modal.cfm

From there or perhaps from some of the many other publications on the site
(can't remember exactly which one), if you are 17-25 y.o. the risk of death
per km ridden is 36 times higher than if you drive a car. The good news is
that if you are over 40, then the risk is only 20 times higher ;-).

If you look at the numbers in terms of registered vehicles, then things look
different again: in 1999, fatalities per 1000 registered motorbikes was 0.5.
Fatalities per 1000 registered cars was 0.1 (five times less). This seems
much better, but I really think the risk per km ridden/driven is a fairer
comparison.

Cheers,
Nicholas

 

The problem with all the statistics is that the percentage, in terms of kms
driven/ridden in the course of normal usage, compared to the kms
driven/ridden like a dick head is never mentioned.

I wonder what the fatality rate per km would be if you took out all
fatailities and all the km (for car or bike) that fit into the following
categories.

Excessive speed (I mean _really_ excessive, like twice the limit or
something like that, or 120 in an 80 zone in the snow, or things like that.)
Burnouts (including lighting it up out of a round-a-bout).
Wheelies.
Stoppies.
Treating the road like your own personal race track. (I'm not talking about
riding quickly here, but more to do with crossing over to the other side of
the road all the time as though there is no chance of a vehicle coming the
other way.)
Unlicense riders/drivers.
Unregistered vehicles.
People who are drunk.
People not wearing seatbelt/helmet.

I think the figures would seem much better. (Especially for motorcycles,
which have a _lot_ of unlicensed rider fatalities.)

 

If you ...

a) don't ride like a drunk kamikaze pilot on a GP bike (ie. pay attention
and don't do nuthin' stoopid)

b) ride as if you are literally invisible (ie. assume that every last driver
has not seen you) and be *always* ready to honk,brake and swerve

c) have a bike that won't disintergrate beneath you

d) don't get hit by a bus that has burst its tyres and swerved across 6
lanes of freeway to be just where you are at just the same time

....then there's no logical reason why you'd crash or get hurt - it's all up
to you (unless the last option).

 

If you have to get your parents permission then you are not ready. Bikes are
not dangerous, its just the idiots who decide they are better riders then
Rossi
who are dangerous as well as car drivers who cant even see ( thus give way )
to other cars let alone bikes. And getting a bike just as Autumn / Winter
rolls
around in Canberra will give you a case of frost bike on your balls ( or if
your
female your <insert whatever body part you like here > ).

Not thats the negatives, the positives are simply riding a bike is great fun
and maintenance/running costs are cheaper then a car. Parking is easier
and mostly the bike community are a friendlier lot

 

They are very stubborn and completely oppose my ideas because they believe

They are correct.

There are lots, but you dont want to show your parents, they will lock
you up.

http://truckster.offroad.au.com/injuries.htm <-- not much?
Coma for month,
hospital 3 mths,
Lost the control of my right foot, and feeling from shin down,
Left arm doesnt straighten
2 fingers sewn back on,
missed the birth of my son,

and more..

Car drivers are fucked.

 

From Zeebee's link in the post above this, check out
http://www.roadsafety.mccofnsw.org.au/a/38.html which has plenty of
statistical data on motorcycle crashes as opposed to car crashes. Quite
informative, and we're not nearly as bad as people make us out to!

Cam
'03 954

 

Unlicences makes up 8% ... so yeah, quite a factor!

Cam
'03 954

 

In aus.motorcycles on Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:07:49 +1100

I've seen speculation that as the motorcycle population is skewed
towards the risk taking types - young men - that the crash rate is very
misleading.

That if you match demographics, the crash rate for bikes would be *less*
than for cars.

I suspect the injury rate from crashes would still be high, but the
chance of getting that injury would be lower than the current stats
which are not matched demographically.

Zebee

 

Greater risk, but then eating chicken is riskier than eating beef, so will
you stop eating chicken?

 

Aye. I'd call that more than speculation... though I don't know about this
"young men" bit; all the craziest bastards I know are all in their 40's...
what are they? Survivors?

 

stupid all or nothing arguments are stupid.

Charlie

 

Just wait until 2005 when over 6 thousand motorcycles invade Canberra for
aweek...Mum and Dad may get a better picture....Ulysses AGM... Grandma rides
a bike...

 

Your parents are right.
They would also have been right when I bought my first bike as a 17 year old in
high school.
You can also be hit by another bike, as I was, thereby making them even more
right.
http://users.tpg.com.au/kkmiller/bike/bikeprang.htm

Thirty three years after and I still ride, except my present bike is eleven (and
a bit) times bigger than the one I was on when I got hit. March 1st was the
anniversary, perhaps I should stop celebrating it.

My mother lives in Canberra, and the son of a friend of hers is presently in
Canberra hospital with some very serious pelvis injuries after being tailended
by a car while stopping at a red light.

The guy's mother said to me, "Get rid of your motor bike". "I won't" I said.
Mothers can be like that. So can sons.

Kim

 

In aus.motorcycles on Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:12:38 +1100

Exactly Still stupid, but they are the ones who learned how to save
the bike from their stupidity when they were young...

I think the real answer is that young riders die in intersection SMIDSYs
and older ones in single vehicle crashes on curves.

The young ones might die there a lot too, but the cars get them on the way
to the twisties whereas the older ones have learned to cope with the cars.

Zebee

 

The guy's mother said to me, "Get rid of your motor bike". "I won't" I said.

So can spouses and in-laws.

My bike was out of action for a few years. When I decided to rebuild it and
get it back on the road, everyone was like, "yeah, yeah, great idea, do it".

As soon as it was about 99.9% done it started. "You should sell the bike",
"you'll get heaps if you sell it and you can buy a car", "I'd sell it if I was you",
"sell it, you can always buy another one later on". Yeah, riiiiiight.

Told 'em all to piss off.