Motorcycle(scooter) question(s)

I have a couple of motorcycle/motorscooter questions, I assume
that these topics are still discussed in this group<g>.

First, I was under the impression that two-stroke engines had either
been banned, or were virtually non-existent. Now, with the recent
resurgence of these scooter clubs, I'm reasonably sure they're mostly
/all two stroke. Although I don't see too much smoke coming from
them, what's the rule on two strokes?

Finally, more of a comment than a question, but I've gained some
interest in maybe replacing my Valkyrie with one of those new
Triumph Rocket III's. Of course, currently this is only speculative,
and will truly depend on many factors that will probably not be
available until early 2005. But, as I was cruising the Triumph site
( http://www.triumph.co.uk/ ), it has occurred to me that we
might be a lot better off(insurance speaking) if the models of these
bikes were comprised of names conveying a little less risk.

For example, using Triumph(although it certainly applies to many
other brands), we have the "Sprint" and "Tiger". Not too scary to
the basic insurance crowd, but then we move to the "Speed Master",
"Speed Triple", "Speed Four", and the "Rocket III".

Actually, they seem quite unlikely named in that I'm pretty sure that
the "Sprint" is much more appropriate at mastering speed than is the
"Speed Master", but that's unrelated.

My point is, that maybe our insurance rates could be reduced if we
still ride the same bikes, but urge the manufacturers into the assign-
ment of different, more sedate model names. I'm reasonably sure
that my insurance premium is going to take a significant bounce
when I tell the company I've gone from a Valkyrie("maiden") to the
likes of a "Rocket III"(heavy loss incentive). I guess it could be
worse, it could be called the "Crotch Rocket III".

By the way, in its limited introduction, does anyone have any first
hand information on the Rocket III, that they would care to share.


Thank you,


Gary Walker

 

EPA effectively killed 2 strokes years ago, even for offroad use.
Everything on the street, including scooters, is 4 stroke and in
increasing numbers are water cooled and catalytic converter equipped for
increasingly stiff EPA specs. It's the future and there's no escaping
it.

The names help sell the bikes. The buyers have to deal with the
insurance companies, not the manufacturers.

 

Going to have to pay a call to Cliff and twist his arm. That does look
like one helluva toy to putt around on. Has Wild West sold that Rune
they have had sitting on the floor for a few months now?

 

I saw one rolling at the New Ulm BMOC rally last May going across the
open grass field and that low slung look on the road looked pretty
precarious going across a field. Black is also such a devious color.
It looks great fresh, but it's the worst color to try and keep looking
good. Honda of Houston has apparently sold their alottment; they are
just up the road from me and i've seen one or two out front that have
been in for service. Tell ya what tho, the Road King convinced me that
a big chrome headlamp nacelle looks great but is a bad idea for riding
towards the sun. Yeowwch, that's bright at the wrong time.

 

Thanks all, for the information and comments:

Regarding the two/four stroke scooters, I've seen/heard a few
recently, and I'm sure they are two strokes. I even saw a guy
on TV the other night during a news segment. The story was
about what I was describing - the recent popularity of these
things. The guy on TV(from some scooter store) even fired
the thing up. I know that was a two stroke. Well, lets say that
it sure sounded like a two stroke. It was a model like the old
Allstate Cruisair(sp?), which was really built by someone else
(Lambretta, Vespa). I would probably believe that those things
that look like a jet ski, that Honda makes, are four strokes. But,
I don't think the guy on TV, at the scooter store, was a four stroke.

Regarding the Triumph Rocket III question(s), I guess I should
have asked - Having never owned a Triumph of any kind, what
is the general perception/reality of their quality?

I know Albert seems to be pretty happy with his Yamaha, maybe
I'll look at those for a replacement.

Thanks again,

Gary Walker

 

Steve R. is probably the guy that should answer this, but the short
order of it is that 2-strokes have been banned from public roads.
They are still running them off-road and on tracks, though. At least,
that is what i understand about it.

Most of the scooters out there are 4-stroke engines, not 2-stroke.

I would say that it doesn't matter too much what the name of the bike
is. If the insurance carriers pick up on the fact that it's 1) a
popular model and 2) that it has any type of performance you are going
to get nailed.

I know most of us on the group have been round and round with this
one. My guess is that they are first going to get you because of the
displacement - that's all some carriers look at. Then, when they
find out the thing is as fast as a 'Busa in the quarter mile (claimed,
not proven) you are going to get nailed again.

Personally? I don't think it's an aesthetically pleasing bike. Looks
like they mounted a tractor engine in the thing. However, that being
said I did read a good road review of the pre-production bike. Some
minor things to fix before being mass produced, but the guys testing
it liked it a lot. No hard numbers, yet, though.


--Fullstate

Me and Mah 'Priller!

 

The perception is that for a long time they were not very good bikes
from a maintenance perspective. Their quality has gone way up in the
last few years, though and I don't believe that is an issue anymore.



--Fullstate

Me and Mah 'Priller!

 

wow, how'd they get thru EPA ?

i've got chain saws with bigger motors.

wiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnggggggggggggggggg tak tak tak tak tak tak tak.......

 

transmissions = ouch right now.
oops for yamaha, which is unusual, but shows no one is infallible.

 

Once again, thanks for all the comments. I would've thought any
of the scooter engines were bigger than 49cc. I guess many are.

I remember, as a kid, one of my most unhappy days. I had just
gotten a brand new Honda S90 which, for its time, was pretty
quick. I was real proud of the bike and its performance, until I
read somewhere that the average 3-4HP lawnmower engine
was 175cc. The S90 never seemed quite the same after that<G>.


Thanks again,


Gary Walker

 

i wonder how it compares with a V-Rod? (need to pull out my MCN tables)
If HD would make a sport touring platform based on the motor and give it
a good chassis/brakes, i'd take a serious look at it. That motor has a
lot of potential; Porsche knows how to get loads of power out of small
air cooled engines and keep them reliable. The upcoming BMW K series
sport bike looks to be real interesting too, stuff from their F-1 motors
being applied to production engines and then put in their amazing
suspensions. The Yamster FJs are tremendous machines that are probably
the current top of the sport touring market today and that's the target
for the new K bike. End result is we all get better choices in the
shops.

You know, we really are living in a golden age of motorcycling right
now.

 

yah, K-GT aint the shznits, heavy and underpowered for the class even if
it is a nice ride. I think they just tacked on some tupperware to make
something fill in the marketing slot until the new bike is ready. One
of the salesguys at Wild West who i've known for years confided in me
that he wasn't knocked out with the K-Gt either when it came out last
year.

I'c consider putting the deposit down on a new FJ and take delivery
whenever it shows up, but I can't justify starting over outiftting a new
ride when i've almost got the RT where I want it. Next blat of money
goes to a fuel cell and then an HID lighting upgrade. to replace the
PIAAs and I'm done.

Then it will be time for a new bike. Call me Sysyphys.

 

That's my view too.

I don't dislike the company. They just don't build anything interesting
beyond old school boulevard cruisers for bar hopping; some of which they
place bags on so more miles may be piled between bar stops. But that's
just my perception of their product line.

Toss that motor into a serious S-T chassis (and not the abortion known
as a Buell) and I'd have to give it a serious look-see.

 

Didn't the late great Fran Crane ride a Buell ST in the Butt circa
97/99? She wasn't terribly happy about it after the fact iirc, even
with factory support.

 

That was the last year that "factory support" was allowed in the rules.
Buell had a chase truck and maybe 3 bikes worth of spares ready to go at
each step along the way.

 

That's kind of bogus. Doesn't say much for their expected reliability.
I'm glad Mike got rid of that, it levels the playing field a bit better.

Nothing against Fran, who has my utmost respect as a rider, she broke
new ground for all LD riders (and she was a looker back in the day too,
that pic of her in the white leathers and her long blonde hair, yowzah)

 

doesn't that just reek of confidence. sounds like the same formula from
a H.O.G. chapter ride where someone always ends up being carted home.


Fran was quite the looker back in the day. you know that picture of her
in the white leathers and long blonde hair? yowzah! One helluva rider,
she broke new ground and set new standards and records, a modern legend.

 

And what she did was perfectly within the scope of the rules at the time
it was done. Ya can't knock someone for working the rules as best they
can. That's why Mike keeps the rules a "living document". As recently as
01 changes were made about sponsorship that changed aspects of 03.

 

Fran was top notch. Always patient with questions from strangers. Would
ride coast to coast to the pizza party, stick around for an hour and
head back home (coast to coast again).

 

I certainly would've thought all those scooters I see/hear buzzing
around were larger displacement than 50cc. Although I no longer
use this device, I have a weed eater that's two stroke, came from
Sears probably 20 years ago, and I think is 49cc.

Maybe your description is the reason for all the 49cc devices I
see(weed eaters, mini bikes, pocket bikes, leaf blowers, etc.).

Thanks, for the update.


Gary