Moto GP to go to 800cc in 2007

Not pressing enough for most people, they'll do it if there's no down
side, but you only have to look at how many big 6 and V8s are bought by
people who drive them to and from the shops for a total of 5,000 km a
year to know that people's hip pockets aren't hurting terribly badly yet

Really ? Care to back that up ? Sure plenty of taxis get sold, but I
don't know about you, but where I work most "company cars" are simply a
tax effective way of buying your domestic runabout, they rarely get used
for work purposes (any they don't have to be).

Really, got some sales numbers ?

I'm sure there are a few, I'll bet most of them live on farms and get
the diesel rebate too...

Alright, facetiousness aside, there are a number of people for whom fuel
economy is important, but if they're that tight for dollars why would
you spend 25-35K for a golf diesel, when for 15K you can buy a hyundai
small capacity 4cylinder, 10grand buys a shit load of petrol, AND you'll
save money on insurance, servicing costs, tyres etc etc

When hyundai and co. release a diesel then and only then is it a serious
option for those who are trying to squeeze every cent out of there
whitegoods on wheels transport solution.

JL

 

<shrug> My assertions are indeed worth the electrons you paid for them,
but I have a great deal of confidence in Toyota and Honda's ability to
develop technology, they've got a brilliant track record at it.

Which nicely loops back to my original point (nice attempt to take over
by stealth the ground I staked originally I would suggest turbo
diesels will remain the minority solution that rotaries in cars and
2stroke in bikes ended up being (although I wonder what would have
happened if the orbital solution to 2 stroke emmissions had been
invented 10 years earlier).

My prediction is fuel cells as the long term solution with hybrid otto
cycle/electric, diesels, pure electric and small capacity blown otto
cycle motors fighting over market share for probably 15-20 years. I used
otto cycle because I reckon a big slug of petrol motors will be
converted to alcohol and LPG, hence otto cycle covers all 3 fuel options
for the fundamentally same motor.

Bio diesel from oilseeds will probably fuel buses and trucks for many
years, although the torque generated by electric motors means these are
very viable for big mass transport.

JL

 

Hang on, I thought you were arguing that this is the solution for the
cost sensitive whitegoods on wheels market, a bit of consistency to the
argument thanks !!

JL

 

Gee you get 1litre per 100km better fuel economy for 20% less power from
the same capacity (3.5 vs 4.5 and 40 hp vs 50hp). I suspect performance
is pretty sluggish in both versions. I don't think I'd cope in either
version, get a bloody scooter, at least it would be fun !

www.smart.com, go to germany because they don't seem to sell them in UK
in diesel

BTW there you go G-S - there's one half of an apples to apples, two
800cc petrol and diesel turbo motors, both tuned for economy, and as
expected the petrol puts out significantly better HP for equivalently
worse fuel economy. Now I just need to dig you up a turbo petrol and
turbo diesel making the same HP to compare fuel economy..

JL
(benziner = petrol, diesel is diesel of course)

 

Saab, saab, saab.....

Oh of course he has been, but at the end of the day, the argument was
"is a turbo diesel the engine solution to the coming oil crisis" and it
then turned to "well alright it's the interim until fuel cells come
along", to which the answer is, IMNSHO, no.

JL

 

scooter would be fun but if you actually want a car then the fuel benefits
are huge
combined with the parking benefits

i think the main difference is over in Europe diesel is significantly
cheaper than petrol

 

<shrug> I don't want vehicles of any sort that aren't fun to use. I
don't have the constraints of a tribe of kids and within reason I
couldn't give a monkey's what the fuel consumption is.

Not really in the sense you're implying, I've been pro-hybrid long
before the Prius came out. The low end torque of an electric combined
with the high HP/low torque of a low emmission two stroke petrol would
in my opinion be the perfect combo for a small 2 seater. A wider spread
of torque is required for bigger cars, petrol in the middle and diesel
for big vehicles, use the advantages of the different engine types
instead of trying to find one solution to fit all.

Huh ? I haven't even tried to argue that, nor would I ! They're totally
different cars, that'd be like comparing a Monaro with a Bongo van,
regardless of the engine, the only thing they have in common is the
basics of 4 wheels and an engine.

Your argument was that turbo diesels were the natural bridge between
current 80-99% petrol cars (depending on what country you're in), and
that the hybrids were irrelevant and pointless, I disagree, given the
characteristics of the two types of motors there's actually quite good
synergies in putting them together.

 

Yeah, wot 'e said

JL
(same as what I was trying to say, only in about 100th as many words :-(

 

I think you'll find the focus group of the potential buyers of the prius
think it quite attractive (they're just not you and I). The 1series
ditto, I'm seeing a lot of 'em around the inner city. Pointless bloody
things.

Hold hard, if it's not out in Japan, it will be shortly.

Hehehe ! You and me both, screw eco friendly, while ever I can afford
the juice I'll buy the quickest thing in my price range, Golf GTI way
cool little bit of kit, I want the 3.2 V6 quattro A3 though - same
platform but a 190Kw and AWD
<evil grin>

JL

 

kewl ! A bit porky for a modern sports bike but 100hp and 200nm would
pull quite a high gearing - make a damn fine sports tourer

JL

 

Never! I'm not even sure john's got a chain... and if he has then I'm
certainly not going to yank it!!

Errmmm ummmm I'm not really... really I'm not


G-S

 

Hmmm well it SOUNDS like about 18K rpm then !

JL

 

That's ok, IMHO it is... but *shrug* I'll never convince you and you'll
never convince me so maybe we should just agree to disagree


G-S

 

Nah... I just can't understand why someone would _choose_ to live in the
city ;-)


G-S

 

Surprised me I must admit, but I ran the pair of them together twice -
once from Briz to Sydney, once from Armidale to Sydney, it's definitely
cheaper, don't forget AWD screws economy as well.

Hehe I don't think the Audi would even move forward with a horse float
attached, I'm damn sure I'd blow a clutch or gearbox or both within 500km

JL

 

Those little 3 wheelers? I don't see how

G-S

 

Errmm and why is this a win for the petrol? Seriously? [1]


G-S

[1] I've just done 2000kms in 2 days, so I'm not up to long posts at the
moment

 

TCO and price aren't the same thing... Sensible people look at TCO,
other people for a variety of other reasons are mesmerised by sticker
price....

Hyundai's target demographic are the sort of sticker sensitive people
that I was talking about.

Consistency isn't about 2 different comments...


G-S

 

If company cars are not being used for company purposes then I hope
appropriate fringe benifits taxes are being paid! And that you are
reporting anyone you know of that aren't doing that!

Well the local ford dealer sells about 100 company cars a year here, we
buy a few, the horspidal buys some, the councils buys some, etc etc.

I know that all of those groups have strict private use limits and use
log books or similar.

*shrug* The registration figures quoted by RACV and and several other
groups support the comment that most commodores and falcons are company
vehicles. Also that the most popular private sale vehicle type is medium 4.

VACC quoted this, I can chase it down if you really want..

I don't think many farmers buy turbo golf's... seriously


G-S

 

I'm not convinced of that... NGV looks a much better alternative to me


G-S