Moto GP to go to 800cc in 2007

I like 2 strokes though!

Depends upon your definition... mass market petrol cars aren't
turbocharged... mass market diesl cars are. Comparing mass market
petrols to mass market diesels in the markets where diesels have
significant market penetration (like europe) they offer comparable
performance at comparable price (and price is what the mass market will
look at).

We're looking at the fuel cell bus trials with significant interest, the
main problem is that they add significant weight and take significant
space. That's not too bad for a bus... but it would be an issue for
your average 2+2 light hatch (which then weighs about the same as a 4
seat sedan even if it costs less to fuel).

The prius and the honda civic are on the market, but the prius is well
overpriced and a pig to drive. The honda civic isn't too badly priced
(similarly to a turbo diesel) but it doesn't offer the fuel economy
benifits that the prius does. Of course the civic offers almost normal
performance and isn't super slippery... which leaves me wondering how
much of the prius economy is due to the aerodynamics and low power and
how much is due to the hybrid configuration?

Actually diesels work much better for constant rev applications where
they are charging a battery system (like a diesel electric train), but
that's a bit different to the prius where the motor is boost as well.

Also diesels don't scale down as well... a very small diesel and an
electric hybrid system whilst potentially delivering fuel savings would
probably be quite heavy. [1]


G-S

[1] what do you mean... you don't like 2 strokes?!?!?

 

If you are 'augumentative waffley guy' then who am I? Am I hammo?


G-S

 

It's not JL's fault though... I blame Cam!

Well... one of the Cam's anyway...



G-S

 

The once only posers of course (he says from the dizzying heights of 3
wins...)


G-S

 

So what you're saying is, the balance has been shafted?

GB

 

I still want an Enfield Taurus.

And anyway, you can always get a 2-stroke diesel ...

-----sharks

 

OK OK OK. I never looked at balance shafts. I don't like the whole idea of
balance shafts myself. Remove the external vibrations by doubling the
internal vibrations? You are no doubt aware that some of the larger fours,
such as the 2.6 Magna engine, also have a balance shaft.

I think that for cars turbo-diesels are the way of the future.

Theo

 

That was me! ;-) You have something against tubo-diesels? They make sense,
provide similar power to comparable sized petrol engines and a lot more
torque as well as better fuel consumption.

VW expected sales of their Golf TD in Oz to be around 7% in its first year.
It was 30%. In western Europe 63% of VW passenger car sales are diesel. More
than 50% of MB passenger vehicle sales are also diesel.

We have a bunch of hydrogen buses in Perth. The plume of pure water vapour
coming out of the exhaust is impressive.

Saw some figures last week that they delivered 80,000 hybrids in the USA
last year and expect to deliver 200,000 this year.

Just don't forget to unplug it when you drive off. I wonder how the price
per Kw compares?

Theo

 

Me too!

Hammo

 

Tee hee.

Postman Pat

 

So do I, see below.

For now, petrol engines weren't that great when they first came out either..

There's no reason that fuel cell can't be made a lot lighter and more
compact than current conventional engines, they're just not in the
incremental improvement and minituarisation (sp?) phase yet.

Exxy - sure.

I've not driven one, but the tests don't match that statement...

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1441/article.html
" No driving trade-offs compared to a conventional car "

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_2036/article.html
"It's perhaps the highest level of praise that can be given to the
Toyota Prius that many passengers notice nothing unusual about it.
Despite halving fuel consumption and emissions over a conventional car,
the Prius feels quite normal from the passenger seat. It accelerates
normally, it rides normally, it has normal luxury levels of comfort and
safety."

Of course I do. I was referring to the same irrationality that has
people saying they hate 2 strokes without ever having ridden one. I'll
admit it's not rational but I just don't like diesels.

JL

 

<tentatively> Umm "G-S" ?

JL
I just know that must be the wrong answer

 

Hehe, I'm making the most of it as well while it lasts, I'm thinking
Cagiva's 3 wins are going to be soon eclipsed, I suspect Ducati will get
their shit together soon.

JL

 

Absolutely, an inline 4 isn't perfectly balanced, get enough mass
reciprocating away and it gets vibey, hence the big 4s rather do need a
balance shaft, they're not as unbalanced as a 5 but they're not vibe free.

Mmm, I can see the argument but I reckon if anything it's just an
interim step. The pollution aspect for one thing. Even the clean ones
put out particles that are really bad for lungs (in fact the "clean"
ones are worse because the particles are really small and get further
into the lung structure (or so I've read).

JL

 

------------------------------------------------^^^^^^^

I think you misspeelt "Harleys"...

big

 

From the sign at the servo this morning, "ULP $1.08, Diesel: $1.21",
I'll give that a big *maybe*...

big

 

No, it just wasn't an apples with apples comparison. Compare say a
6litre twin turbo petrol motor (Aston Martin make one) to it and you'd
be a bit fairer. 450Kw from the Petrol motor, 350(? from memory) from
the diesel with an extra 2 litres of capacity. Not comparable cc for cc,
but a turbo diesel can be set up to output mucho mumbo no doubt, they
just don't put out as much per cc as a 4 stroke petrol engine, then
again a 4 stroke petrol engine puts out less HP per cc than a 2 stroke...

turbo 2.5 diesel vs turbo 2.5 petrol and the petrol will have probably
50% more HP, and probably 15% less torque (depends on a whole heap of
factors of course, but assuming a production road car state of tune ie
something a factory would warrant for 50-100,000Km). Torque may be nice
for towing boats, but it doesn't make an MT01 quicker than an R1..

Sure and fuel taxes are directly related to these numbers - diesel is
cheaper than petrol, and both are very expensive by Australian
standards. Here Diesel is about the same price as petrol (last time I
noticed the price of it anyway)

Kewl !

Good question, electricity is pretty cheap but I'm not even sure how to
go about working it out, there'd have to be some level of inefficiency
in the charging process, so you couldn't just do a straight comparison
of the power bill.

JL

 

this is ausmoto... no answer is actually wrong...


G-S

 

i've got one 92 detroit


G-S

 

Whilst that is true as far as it goes it also means that they are a lot
further away from mass market than turbo diesels are (which are already
in the incremental improvement and minituarisation phase).

I have... the suspension was fine around town, and acceleration and
braking was fine around town. I took it onto the roads around here in
the country for an extended test drive.

It wallowed when the road was rough and had a most unpleasant ride
(compared to the camry I test drove the same day). It also felt gutless
under accelleration from 100 kph upwards compared to the camry (which
was thousands of dollars cheaper).

It would take a _lot_ of fuel savings to make up the difference, and the
driving experience (compared to that camry) was markedly inferior.

It accellerated well slower than the four cylinder camry (and wasn't
even in the same ballpark as the six cylinder camry). The ride was too
soft and the suspension bottomed out over bumps that I drive over every
day (bumps the camry had no trouble with).

You aren't allowed to be irrational... you are JL!

Only us irrational lot are allowed to do that...


G-S