more bike bashing ?

Oops; no it wasn't. Hammo's point was that there *ARE* legitimate
motor/pedal vehicles that he might've been referring to.

 

You have set out a few sensible arguments. This would far exceed the
grasp of the NSW guvvament people. I would never dare suggest that
it's a good idea or a revenue positive initiative.

 

But look at the stats! More than double increase! OMG think of the
children etc etc etc if it saves just one life....The guvvament must
do something about this carnage on the road etc etc.

 

G-S wrote:

I wouldn't call them that, Geoff.

The 200 watt restriction basically stops them being motor vehicles.

Once some thing is a motor vehicle, it then has to comply with
regulations for motor vehicles.

Yes, and then again, no.

Australia has never really had much of a history of mopeds, while Europe
had millions of the buggers.

Originally, they did have pedals, but then again, if you look far enough
back in history, some quite large capacity motorcycles also had pedals.

The mere fact of having pedals wasn't the sole qualifier for a moped,
and then, some time in the sixties, most countries removed the
requirement for pedals on a moped, but left the power and/or speed
limitations for a class of vehicle which continued to be commonly
referred to as "mopeds".

...or, some times, low powered motorcycles.

Another commonly used measure of a "moped" is a max power output of 2.4 bhp.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

In WA moped officially means

Moped
A motorcycle that has a propelling engine having a piston
displacement not exceeding 50 cc and which is designed so as to be
capable of a speed not exceeding 60 kilometres per hour.

Licence Class R-N Minimum age 16. My 15 yo grandson has a learners
permit for this class at the moment. He will be able to get his
licence next May when he turns 16. Meanwhile he can ride around on L's
as long as his mum or dad are with him.

Theo

 

In WA moped officially means

Moped
A motorcycle that has a propelling engine having a piston
displacement not exceeding 50 cc and which is designed so as to be
capable of a speed not exceeding 60 kilometres per hour.

Licence Class R-N Minimum age 16. My 15 yo grandson has a learners
permit for this class at the moment. He will be able to get his
licence next May when he turns 16. Meanwhile he can ride around on L's
as long as his mum or dad are with him.

Theo

*****************************

On a moped ??

 

CrazyCam wrote:

Ooops.... I was wrong. Not all that unusual, just ask Angie!

It was, apparently the seventies that the pedal business got disappeared
in various places.

For further edification, see:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moped

regards,
CrazyCam

 

I think the argument is rather that the current road toll is made up
(mainly) of licensed riders and drivers, their unwitting passengers,
other innocent road users and equally innocent bystanders. If licensing
car and bike users still leaves a road toll, why would licensing cyclists
achieve anything?

It's possible to understand the argument without agreeing with it, mind.

 

.....although. I can see why one might use the term moped.

www.rta.nsw.gov.au/.../vsi_27_-_mopeds_and_power-assisted_pedal_cycles_july_
2008.pdf

H

 

OK; to summarise, moped means Motor/Pedal and thus includes
power-assisted bicycles but various people, organisations, manufacturers
and Governments have mangled and bastardised the term and it's now
widely used to describe small-scooters. [1]
Many Australian State Governments have a moped vehicle classification
and/or licence classification but all refer just to small scooters (with
specific limitations).
NSW does *not* have a moped licence/vehicle classification but people
there also refer to small-scooters as mopeds. [2]

That it?

 

60?!!?
Most of the states limit it to a less workable 50.

 

60?!!?
Most of the states limit it to a less workable 50.

 

Hmmm.. OK so NSW *does* have a moped vehicle-classification; just that
they then don't offer any different licencing or registration on that
classification, instead making users pay the same and use the same
licences as for motorcycles.

I had more luck with this link:
<http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registrat...nd_power-assisted_pedal_cycles_july_2008.pdf>

 

Hmmm.. OK so NSW *does* have a moped vehicle-classification; just that
they then don't offer any different licencing or registration on that
classification, instead making users pay the same and use the same
licences as for motorcycles.

I had more luck with this link:
<http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registrat...nd_power-assisted_pedal_cycles_july_2008.pdf>

 

Lars Chance wrote:
Bloody hell; I'm seeing double!

 

Lars Chance wrote:

OK, they have a document acknowledging the existence of the class, but,
in effect, lump them in with any other motorbike or scooter. :-(

A difference that makes no difference...... right.

I hadn't known that.

When the pre-learners course was first established, the RTA chose, and
owned, the fleet of bikes used by the various schools running the
courses. There was usually at least one 49cc automatic scooter at each
school.

I dunno when that situation ceased.

For the MOST, provided it is a legal and roadworthy bike, they have to
allow folk to be tested on whatever they ride up on. Only the gear
changing mechanism makes any difference.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

Bizarrely, provided you do the pre-learners on a manual bike, you can
do the MOST on a scooter and still score a manual licence.

The pre-learners qualification determines the licence type (auto or
manual)...unless that's changed in the last few months.

 

Couldnt get to the other link but this from the main RTA page (left
menu):-
"
Power-assisted pedal cycles discussion paper

The Roads and Traffic Authority (RTA) is proposing a new definition
for power-assisted pedal cycles through a discussion paper. This
addresses the need for a revised standard and description of the
characteristics of a power-assisted pedal cycle that is exempt from
registration without creating a new category of vehicle.

This paper is the latest step of a series of initiatives to develop a
national strategy in Australia to apply consistent design standards
and registration requirements for power-assisted pedal cycles (PAPCs).
A new definition is recommended along with the appropriate
justification and analysis with the emphasis on road safety.
Involving the community

A discussion paper has been prepared and is the basis for a nation-
wide consultation process aimed at seeking stakeholder views on the
proposed new definition for a power-assisted pedal cycle.
How to give feedback

The submission period on this issue closed on 30 June 2009.

"

 

And they won't (or shouldn't) allow you to do the test on a non-LAMS
bike.

 

That's what I meant by a legal bike.

regards,
CrazyCam