Middle East Oil Dependency and Peace and Riding...

Incorrect....it exposes people who use "little" when they are talking about
hundreds of millions of things because they have arbitrarily decided that
hundreds of millions isn't enough for them...

Doesn't matter much, its not like we rule the world in the same style that
Hitler would have. As long as we can guarentee that the oil hits the open
market, we, being the open market capitol of the world, win. Its easy....I
just wish we could make better cars to compete with the Japanese....it
irritates me that unions and the american worker conspire to build junk and
force us knowlegable consumers to buy japanese.

I am, but I don't have worldwide supply and demand numbers sitting right
here...at the office? Sure...but supply has increased if only because I know
demand has jumped this year and supply matched it. Reasonable....probably
even true...but I don't have the Oil and Gas journal in front of me to
verify it right now.

This sounds like an entirely new topic....plus, Saddle will jump in on your
side because he's pretty unhappy with the republicans as well, something
about lack of free dope and legal hookers....

Notice how you don't mention someone who got a scratch on his arm who would
fall into the category of "wounded" which again would inflate the numbers,
but doesn't matter, still sounds alot less than cage accident damage if you
ask me. Owning the world ain't cheap...

 

So, going back to living in caves is the only alternative
to ever increasing oil consumption that comes to your mind,
eh? Interesting...


--

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and I really
don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
-- George W. Bush, March 13, 2002

"I think this is the worst government the US has ever
had in its more than 200 years of history. It has
engaged in extraordinarily irresponsible policies not
only in foreign policy and economics but also in social
and environmental policy.....This is not normal government
policy. Now is the time for people to engage in civil
disobedience. I think it's time to protest - as much as
possible....What we have here is a form of looting."
- George A. Akerlof, 2001 Nobel prize laureate economist

"One of the things we don't want to do is destroy the
infrastructure in Iraq because in a few days we're going
to own that country," - Tom Brokaw

Cost of probing Bill Clinton's sex life: $65 million.
Cost of probing the Columbia shuttle disaster: $50 million.
Funds assigned to independent Sept. 11 panel: $3 million.

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/


"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"You know, when bu$h said that he's against nation building,
I didn't realize that he meant only the United States"
-- Al Franken

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

"Personally, I don't think all the Iraqis on earth are
worth even a single American life." - Tim Kreitz

 

Yeah, and they are also the ones putting the hold on several projects it
appears, according to the EIA link I provided. It will be interesting to see
how it plays out over the next few years with higher oil prices, if Saudi
Arabia ups its infrastructre expenditures. Anyway, follow the money, it'll
be interesting to watch.

Sure...they've been seeing it for 20 years, I don't argue with that. I argue
with whether or not they can produce full daily capacity from the sands
without running into the related glitches created by eco-tree huggers, or
gas or water problems.

 

You are obtuse. I merely pointed out oil (extraction and consumption)
is inherently punishing to the environment. I did that without
expressing any value judgements one way or the other.

Seems you are not able to engage in a productive discussion without
resorting to the twisting of facts, creating remote hypotheticals and
deliberately misrepresenting what I have said.

Too bad because I was enjoying the discussion. Unfortunately I tire
of poking and prodding at the weak and ill informed once they cease to
contribute productively to the debate.


Don Binns
84 - Virago 1000

When an ill wind blows you can either build a hut or hoist a sail.

http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/reeky.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/banff.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/kananaskis.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/walkercalgary.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/calgarybrowning.htm

 

Dude, work on your reading! Rumsfled went over to
shake his hand, not me. I'm not associated with any
bu$h regime. I'm opposed to supporting brutal dictators.

You must really be disgusted with the torture and murder
that took place at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, then.
Not only were unspeakbale atrocites committed, but most of the
victims were innocent of any wrong doing. Guess you didn't
vote for the war criminal last Nov., eh?

They're brutally oppressed and desperate. Nothing pristine
or pure about that.

Israel will claim that the innocent children who die in
their terror attacks are merely unintentional collateral
damage. Hey, when there's a "suspected terrorist" in a
densely populated civilian area, kids are going to die.
The only way to take him out is with U.S. supplied helicopter
gunships and missiles. Guess the kids should find anoher place
to live, eh?

Troll.



--

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and I really
don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
-- George W. Bush, March 13, 2002


"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook, on the rape, torture and murder
at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
(http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm)

George W. Bush: "We have sources that tell us that Saddam
Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical
weapons." February 8, 2003.

George W. Bush: "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments
leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal
some of the most lethal weapons ever devised." March 17, 2003.


"I think this is the worst government the US has ever
had in its more than 200 years of history. It has
engaged in extraordinarily irresponsible policies not
only in foreign policy and economics but also in social
and environmental policy.....This is not normal government
policy. Now is the time for people to engage in civil
disobedience. I think it's time to protest - as much as
possible....What we have here is a form of looting."
- George A. Akerlof, 2001 Nobel prize laureate economist

"One of the things we don't want to do is destroy the
infrastructure in Iraq because in a few days we're going
to own that country," - Tom Brokaw

Cost of probing Bill Clinton's sex life: $65 million.
Cost of probing the Columbia shuttle disaster: $50 million.
Funds assigned to independent Sept. 11 panel: $3 million.

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/


"After all, it is the leaders of the country who determine
the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the
people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to
do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the
peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country
to danger. It works the same in any country."
-- Hermann Goering, President of the Reichstag, Nazi Party, and
Luftwaffe Commander in Chief

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"You know, when bu$h said that he's against nation building,
I didn't realize that he meant only the United States"
-- Al Franken

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...


"Personally, I don't think all the Iraqis on earth are
worth even a single American life." - Tim Kreitz

 

Not only does their investment imply they believe they can, the
absolute proof is they are.

Don Binns
84 - Virago 1000

When an ill wind blows you can either build a hut or hoist a sail.

http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/reeky.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/banff.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/kananaskis.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/walkercalgary.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/calgarybrowning.htm

 

Pay attention...I said "full daily capacity", which, if I believe any of the
press, sure isn't a piddly 600K barrels a year, I'm talking full production,
not a miniture pilot project like you have now.

 

You are obtuse.

No...you aren't clear. You don't like the way your words are
construed...write more clearly.

Semantics. Putting a shovel to dirt falls within an interpretation of
"punishing the environment". Me taking a leak in the woods qualifies as
well. Again...semantics. You don't like the way your words are construed,
write better.

And if appears when I correct what you've to comply with reality, you call
said information I've provided "twisting facts, hypotheticals and deliberate
misrepresentation".

Why does that not surprise me?

Good for you! Taking a constructive stand and all based on more assumptions
with which you are comfortable. Now go and figure out where those 2 B's /Day
is going to come from so Alberta can have even better employment over the
next few years....

 

No....but go read what Colin Campbell and his buddies spew forth and one of
their concepts is everything goes back to basic stone age realities....I
figured a "Peak Oiler" would understand the reference.

 

Dude, work on your reading! Rumsfled went over to

Sure you are...but you are also opposed to helping people shake off the
tyrancy associated with oppression if it requires a single bullet being
fired in their direction, eh? So you LIKE the idea of a military just used
for hurricane cleanup eh?

Yeah...we won the war in a walk...and then we lost it just as fast. What a
complete and utter mess, what those people did to the prisoners in their
care. It used to be, when an American got captured, you knew the other guys
were going to beat the crap outta them and violate every tenant of the
Geneva Convention, but at least when they did it they couldn't say we would
do it as well. Now they can. Just great.....the boneheaded idiot who
advocated that crap to the President who apparently will soon be the
Attorney General is a complete numbskull....I can hardly wait to see what he
advocates next....maybe that "search and seizure" really only applies if the
victims are of your political party....otherwise its a-okay.

I voted for the best man, my guess is every president we've had for quite
sometime has technically been a war criminal to someone, somewhere. Such is
the price of power....

Sure...its all the Israeli's fault....and those pesky oppressed Arabs in the
countrys surrounding Israeli are just misunderstood.....especially when they
roll a few thousand tanks in to make sure they are better "understood"....

Sounds like everything is pretty even steven then? So why bitch? Everybody
is getting slaughtered pretty evenly considering the weapons used.

Do you always resort to name calling when caught in such an obvious
historical boo-boo? Don't like facts which fly in the face of your built in
prejudice against Israel eh?

 

You are just talking in circles now regurgitating the same crap. If
you have something new to contribute to the discussion I might
respond.

Don Binns
84 - Virago 1000

When an ill wind blows you can either build a hut or hoist a sail.

http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/reeky.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/banff.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/kananaskis.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/walkercalgary.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/calgarybrowning.htm

 

I gather you support tar sands indirectly... I guess I will too buying
DeHavilland Chipmunk parts...

Oil is organic and part of the environment... strip mining for tar is
absence of environment...

Larry L
94 RC45 #2
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2

 

Isn't there still a USGS in Menlo Park? ....

 

S'all right. I'm done, I've got to go do some work to find out why the EIA
thinks people were kissing off projects up there now, it can't be because of
funding because of the current prices, so it was something else which made
it a problem and now I'm curious. The 2 BCF/ Day is making me a little
jumpy, I want to know if that was a current number for the project thats
going on now, or a projection based on full production, and if so, what the
rates are.

 

Good. Can you list some of your alternatives to bu$h's
policy of oil dependence/theft and the lies, mass murder,
death, destruction, terrorism, and obscene tax payer expense
that goes with it?


--

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and I really
don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
-- George W. Bush, March 13, 2002


"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook, on the rape, torture and murder
at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
(http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm)


George W. Bush: "We have sources that tell us that Saddam
Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical
weapons." February 8, 2003.

George W. Bush: "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments
leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal
some of the most lethal weapons ever devised." March 17, 2003.


"I think this is the worst government the US has ever
had in its more than 200 years of history. It has
engaged in extraordinarily irresponsible policies not
only in foreign policy and economics but also in social
and environmental policy.....This is not normal government
policy. Now is the time for people to engage in civil
disobedience. I think it's time to protest - as much as
possible....What we have here is a form of looting."
- George A. Akerlof, 2001 Nobel prize laureate economist

"One of the things we don't want to do is destroy the
infrastructure in Iraq because in a few days we're going
to own that country," - Tom Brokaw

Cost of probing Bill Clinton's sex life: $65 million.
Cost of probing the Columbia shuttle disaster: $50 million.
Funds assigned to independent Sept. 11 panel: $3 million.

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/


"After all, it is the leaders of the country who determine
the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the
people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to
do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the
peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country
to danger. It works the same in any country."
-- Hermann Goering, President of the Reichstag, Nazi Party, and
Luftwaffe Commander in Chief

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"You know, when bu$h said that he's against nation building,
I didn't realize that he meant only the United States"
-- Al Franken

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...


"Personally, I don't think all the Iraqis on earth are
worth even a single American life." - Tim Kreitz

 

Not at all. I have nothing but respect and admiration for
the brave freedom fighters who have resisted brutal U.S.
back dictators all over the globe, but especially in Central
and South America.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/dictators.html

How you make the jump from being opposed to using our troops
to launch illegal and immoral terror attacks and committing
war crimes to that?

Hey, on that subject, your thinking is clear. Good on you! We've
got a right wing kook here by the name of Nurick who actually
"thinks" Abu Ghraib was no big deal - just "a bit of humiliation"
where "no one died or even lost any blood". A truly amazing display
of total ignorance and stupidity.

Shared by the U.S.. Without multi billion dollar U.S.
taxpayer handouts, Israel would not be able to afford its
brutal and illegal occupation, land theft, terrorism,
brutal oppression, an d war crimes against the defenseless
Palestinian People.

Huh? If you think the fight between Palestinians and Israel
is "even steven" you know next to nothing about the conflict.

Not even close.

Name calling? That's your name by your choice!

My prejudice is against brutal and illegal oppression
of defenseless people, torture, imprisonment without
justice, and war crimes. I'm big in freedom and human rights.
The Palestinians are denied them by Israel with U.S. support.
The land was Palestinian before it was Israeli. That's why
Palestinians still hold deeds to their land in Israel.


--

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and I really
don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
-- George W. Bush, March 13, 2002

"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook, on the rape, torture and murder
at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
(http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm)




George W. Bush: "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments
leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal
some of the most lethal weapons ever devised." March 17, 2003.


"I think this is the worst government the US has ever
had in its more than 200 years of history. It has
engaged in extraordinarily irresponsible policies not
only in foreign policy and economics but also in social
and environmental policy.....This is not normal government
policy. Now is the time for people to engage in civil
disobedience. I think it's time to protest - as much as
possible....What we have here is a form of looting."
- George A. Akerlof, 2001 Nobel prize laureate economist

"One of the things we don't want to do is destroy the
infrastructure in Iraq because in a few days we're going
to own that country," - Tom Brokaw

Cost of probing Bill Clinton's sex life: $65 million.
Cost of probing the Columbia shuttle disaster: $50 million.
Funds assigned to independent Sept. 11 panel: $3 million.

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/


"After all, it is the leaders of the country who determine
the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the
people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to
do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the
peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country
to danger. It works the same in any country."
-- Hermann Goering, President of the Reichstag, Nazi Party, and
Luftwaffe Commander in Chief

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"You know, when bu$h said that he's against nation building,
I didn't realize that he meant only the United States"
-- Al Franken

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...


"Personally, I don't think all the Iraqis on earth are
worth even a single American life." - Tim Kreitz

 

First the consumption of tar sands or conventional oil is punishing on
the environment. Being a Californian you understand that.

Second not all of the tar sands are being mined and the areas that
are, are almost all muskeg. Not one of the most environmentally
sensitive areas of the world. Some of the tar sands oil can be
recovered through cold heavy oil production. This is very similar to
conventional oil production where the oil flows from the ground. Much
of the bitumen (80%) in the tar sands is too deep to be mined and will
be recovered through in-situ or in place recovery method. Once again
not mined.

Of more concern to Albertans is the amount of potable water that will
be used to extract the bitumen from the sands. Water management is an
area I am involved with professionally and water quantity is a major
concern throughout Alberta.

One of the advantages of the way Alberta oil is sold is that we do not
sell the land or the mineral rights for known oil reserves, we lease
them. Not only does that ensure Canadians and Albertans benefit from
our natural resource it also ensures the Government of Alberta has a
say in how the mined areas are restored. Not that I place a lot of
faith in elected officials, but I work with several Biologists in the
protection and restoration of environmentally sensitive areas around
Calgary, who also consult on oil sands restoration issues. Not only
are they dedicated, they are passionate in their work and I do have
confidence in them.

Will we eventually have alternate sources of energy to replace oil and
coal? I sure hope so. New technologies are being developed right
now. Not all that long ago,in Reeky, we discussed wind as an energy
source . Mark spoke to the new developments in the technology he was
aware of and although I know little about it I spoke of the wind farms
currently producing power in Southern Alberta.

Are we there yet? No. Are we headed int the right direction? I think
so.

Don Binns
84 - Virago 1000

When an ill wind blows you can either build a hut or hoist a sail.

http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/reeky.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/banff.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/kananaskis.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/walkercalgary.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/calgarybrowning.htm

 

Sure, as soon as you stop categorizing everything you disagree with as
"lies,mass murder, death,destruction,terrorism and obscene expense"...

 

Cool....just like saddle you dodged the question. "Anti's" tend to beleive
that the military should be used for disaster relief in our country and
nothing more, and when a nuke goes off in San Francisco harbor they would
shrug their shoulders and go stick there head back in the sand....

Thanks for dodging the question and exposing which particular side of the
line you happen to reside on.