Middle East Oil Dependency and Peace and Riding...

It's hard to keep up with all the crap you are posting. Please
provide a link or cite that supports your contention half of Alberta
is being strip mined.

While you are at it you might address the environmental issues
surrounding getting the Alaskan oil to market.

We traded all of our tree huggers for your strippers. A damn good
deal if I do say so myself.

Don Binns
84 - Virago 1000

When an ill wind blows you can either build a hut or hoist a sail.

http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/reeky.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/banff.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/kananaskis.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/walkercalgary.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/calgarybrowning.htm

 

Sure you did. Earlier you implied that the gazillions of barrels of the tar
sands woudl help us ween ourselves away from Saudi oil. And they aren't a
wonderful profit center when oil isn't $60/BBL, nor are they "reserves" by
the SEC or SPE definitions when the price goes under $20/BBL, and when the
state owns nearly all of the mineral rights in the known universe, as it
does in Alberta versus non socialist countries like the US where the
landowner usually owns the mineral rights, then they contribute barely a
whit beyond severance and ad valorum taxes to the local government.

And those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. That is EXACTLY what
everyone said in 1985...and look what happened....$10/BBL oil
arrived.....and refinement capacity has already been established to meet
current demand, by flooding the market the Saudi's would only drive down
price, just like in 86, and a buffer would only exist as long as the price
of crude hadn't worked it way through the system, call it a month.

You really need some practical experience in this industry before venturing
ideas which were disproved several decades ago, or ignoring the consequences
of a world wide commodity and its interaction with your miniscule chunk of
the world.

If you believe that the Saudi's can't do again, what they've done before,
all in the name of keeping everyone else in line, particularly those silly
enough to think that producing oil for $15/BBL when it costs them $20/BBL to
produce is a good idea, then you neither understand the history of the oil
industry as recently as 20 years ago, haven't a clue as to the application
of economic muscle to sway public policy in the OPEC countries, let alone
Russia and the silly rabbits in Alberta, and in general should stick to
cheerleading your particular brand of "localism" and leave those of us alone
who know better.

 

Provide the quote.

They are profitable all the way down to $21.00 per barrel

If if's and buts were candies and nuts, everyday would be Christmas.

It is wonderful to live in a free market like Alberta.


Don Binns
84 - Virago 1000

When an ill wind blows you can either build a hut or hoist a sail.

http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/reeky.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/banff.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/kananaskis.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/walkercalgary.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/calgarybrowning.htm

 

The sky is falling! The Sky is falling!

Your entire argument is based on exaggeration of the facts as they
exist today and doomsday predictions of what _might_ happen in the
future. One does not have to be active in an industry to understand
the ebb and flow of commodities and market forces, in order to form
and defend an opinion.

Falling back on the you don't know shit argument because you are not
in the industry merely points out the weakness in the position you are
trying to defend. You might reconsider the tactic.


Don Binns
84 - Virago 1000

When an ill wind blows you can either build a hut or hoist a sail.

http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/reeky.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/banff.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/kananaskis.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/walkercalgary.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/calgarybrowning.htm

 

If you could see the development going on in this Province, investment

I worked there from 93-94, and I do understand. I love Alberta...its
great...I just would contradict the idea that the tar sands of alberta are
going to save the world, let alone alberta.

And lack of decent racetracks for trackdays.

 

You are correct. But what you do have to do is acknowledge is that those of
us who do it for a living are usually better at it, and better informed,
than those who don't.

Did you notice the part where it says that only 10% of the country has been
explored? Sounds like lots more oil to be found in the other 90%.

 

How about the size of the Prudhoe footprint versus your tar sands? So it
isn't half of Alberta, its some what, 40,000 square miles?

Do the tree huggers really let you get away with that in Alberta?

 

All good points Larry but the same argument can be made for

Oh...so now you want to equate a directional drilling pad with strip mining
the tar sands out of the ground?

Good one!

Let me guess, you aren't a directional driller, toolpusher, or heavy
equipment operator either, and if presented with the footprints of a
drilling pad versus strip mining would do what? Break out a yard stick and
get to work?

 

So you can learn just how little we have invested in renewable
energy compared to what we have spent illegally and immorally
terrorizing and murdering innocent Iraqi civilians in an
attempt to steal their oil.

This should be funny. If it wasn't about oil, what do you
imagine was the motivating factor? Freedom and democracy for
the Iraqi people? The non existent WMDs?

I guess I need to keep in mind that you're just rolling when
you write this stuff.

The "current" demand is rapidly increasing. The supply is
rapidly decreasing. It's not that complicated, really.

If "we" aspire to follow the example set by Nazi Germany,
maybe it's good, but most of "us" don't.

You do realize that back when Hussein was using the WMD
technology that was sold to him by Reagan/bu$h against
"his own people", the Reagan/bu$h regime, including Cheney
and Rumsfeld, not only looked the other way, but refused to
go along with 15 other countries who attempted to condemn
his actions through the U.N., right?

You think that abandoning the fight against terrorism and
presiding over the worst intelligence and national security
failure in the history of our country is wonderful, eh?
You also think that getting over ten thousand of our troops
killed or wounded and wasting hundreds of billions of tax payer
dollars over nothing but lies is also wonderful, eh?
Well, at least you picked an appropriate net handle....

Small matters impact small minds, it seems...

--

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and I really
don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
-- George W. Bush, March 13, 2002


"I think this is the worst government the US has ever
had in its more than 200 years of history. It has
engaged in extraordinarily irresponsible policies not
only in foreign policy and economics but also in social
and environmental policy.....This is not normal government
policy. Now is the time for people to engage in civil
disobedience. I think it's time to protest - as much as
possible....What we have here is a form of looting."
- George A. Akerlof, 2001 Nobel prize laureate economist

"One of the things we don't want to do is destroy the
infrastructure in Iraq because in a few days we're going
to own that country," - Tom Brokaw

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/

 

Fine...and then who is going to produce them then? How long will the local
Canucks produce something for $21 when they get $15 for the product? You
would think even a Canadian could figure that one out.

$20 oil isn't much further away than $15, its happened before, and just
because you don't like WHY it happened before doesn't mean it can't happen
again, no matter how much you aren't happy with the idea.

Well, at least your strippers are better than ours even if an oil industry
which views $40/bbl incremental gain as better than $50/bbl just because the
$50/bbl is in someone elses country.

 

tell it to the peak oilers, they lean towards that assessment
of...well...everything. The EIA is slightly more "nice" when it refers to
the accounting change which jumped Canada from 20th in the world to 2nd
behind Saudi Arabia....got love them accountants....

My entire arguement is based on the eia looking "askance" at the change in
reserve numbers, the fact that the saudi's can push low margin incremental
production out of the market most any time they want, and being amazed that
peoples prespective is so short they can't even recall what happened within
the last 20 years...and deciding that it can't happen now, even though it
happened then, and for the same reasons.

No....but you can't ignore all the facts of the economics of a particular
dataset and declare yourself "winning" just because you live a mile away
from the strip mining either.

I'm not in the industry anymore than you apparently are, and again, ignoring
all evidence to the contrary, I'm sorry you don't like your production costs
and the consequences of what happens when you ignore the geopolitics of oil
because you don't feel you need to know anything about it because your
interest lies elsewhere.

 

Reagan and bu$h 1 were republicans, but you're right -
not only did they fund and support Hussein's atrocities,
but they obstructed attempts to end them. Hell, they even
sent Rumsfeld over to shake his hand after he used chemical
weapons on "his own people".

Israel is violating numerous U.N resolutions and engaged
in an illegal military occupation, not the Palestinians.
Would you just lie down and take it if someone illegally
took over your property and told you how to live? Israel
needs to get off the Palestinian's land.

That's what Reagan and bu$h 1 did, so no, that would
as bad as giving it to Israel. How about Israel learns
to be self sufficient rather than a burden on U.S. tax
payers? Welfare parasites are bad enough, but criminal,
terrorist, human rights violating welfare parasites are
much, much worse.


--

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and I really
don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
-- George W. Bush, March 13, 2002



"I think this is the worst government the US has ever
had in its more than 200 years of history. It has
engaged in extraordinarily irresponsible policies not
only in foreign policy and economics but also in social
and environmental policy.....This is not normal government
policy. Now is the time for people to engage in civil
disobedience. I think it's time to protest - as much as
possible....What we have here is a form of looting."
- George A. Akerlof, 2001 Nobel prize laureate economist

"One of the things we don't want to do is destroy the
infrastructure in Iraq because in a few days we're going
to own that country," - Tom Brokaw

Cost of probing Bill Clinton's sex life: $65 million.
Cost of probing the Columbia shuttle disaster: $50 million.
Funds assigned to independent Sept. 11 panel: $3 million.

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/



"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"You know, when bu$h said that he's against nation building,
I didn't realize that he meant only the United States"
-- Al Franken

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

"Personally, I don't think all the Iraqis on earth are
worth even a single American life." - Tim Kreitz

 

Physically better at it sure, better informed not necessarily.

I believe I acknowledged that in a prior post.

Don Binns
84 - Virago 1000

When an ill wind blows you can either build a hut or hoist a sail.

http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/reeky.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/banff.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/kananaskis.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/walkercalgary.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/calgarybrowning.htm

 

If its more than $1, I can claim its alot if only because I don't recognize
comparisons as a quantifier for "large" or "little".

By that logic, $2 is better than $1 and therefore a "large" amount, whereas
I consider the millions public and probably more private dollars that get
pumped into renewables as a "large" amount regardless of you thinking its
small just because there can be more from somewhere else. There can ALWAYS
be more.....

And if murdering and terrorizing was good enough for saddam to do and you
didn't whine about that, whats your beef with americans doing it instead?

Nope...I think George and the chicken hawks had a hardon for Iraq, with the
related benefit of making sure we have a military presence on non-Saudi soil
but damn close to Syria and Iran. Plus, once Iraq got pulverized, Syria and
Iran would think twice about doing something to get the tanks rolling again

We're getting pretty good at this land war stuff, assuming we can still
afford it.

Supply has changed this year to last, its gone up I imagine...demand has
crept up....which crackpot told you supply rapidly decreased last year?
Individual wells and fields decrease, its been happening since oil was
discovered, and supply has grown because of new discoveries, reserve growth,
higher recovery factors, you name it.

Germany wanted to conquer the world, we've already done it.

absolutely. We let him blow up the Stark, remember? Poltics is ugly
sometimes, ain't they? One day he's your buddy as long as he's bleeding the
iranians dry, the next day he's a bad guy when he takes over Kuwait.

You have a problem with the fundementals of geopoltical power and its
applications?

Last I looked we were still rousting crazies in Afghanistan? Did we pull out
since yesterday? Anyway, the CIA is crappy? What a surprise....kick out the
bums and start over...oops!...thats right...he's already gotten started on
it...well kudo's for him for recognizing it....so whats your beef with him
fixing it now? You don't like GEORGE fixing it, just because he's george and
isn't as good cleaning house as well as who? Liberal liars who think we
should hide behind the oceans and hope we don't get whacked again?

When did 10,000 of our troops die? Somebody slip a nuke into the green zone
when I wasn't looking? Oh...you counted WOUNDED to inflate the numbers in
your favor...I gotcha....statistics lie and liars use statistics....

Anyway, wounded and killed is the price of world domination. You have a beef
with more than 1000 troops dying while we conquer slowly? Go stop drunk
drivers...we lose more people to that than taking over the world but I don't
see the lefties getting all bent out of shape over that.

 

Are you being deliberately obtuse? The consumption of oil and it's
byproducts is punishing on the environment. A point that wouldn't
have been missed by an "Expert working in the field"

Don Binns
84 - Virago 1000

When an ill wind blows you can either build a hut or hoist a sail.

http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/reeky.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/banff.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/kananaskis.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/walkercalgary.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/calgarybrowning.htm

 

You can claim that, but it only exposes the impotence of
your position and your weak debating skills.

And the fact that the world's most valuable natural resource
happens to be there is just a coincidence, eh?

You "imagine"? A little while ago you were claiming to
be very knowledgeable on the subject.

The way it's used by the treasonous terrorists and war
criminals on the bu$h regime, I do. I value this country,
this planet and my fellow human beings. The bu$h regime
is trashing all three.

"We" must be over there planting and watering the opium
crops and catering to rogue war lords, since they're both
thriving.

"Killed or wounded".

It's not in my favor, and of course I counted the
wounded. Guess we shouldn't be surprised that you
"think" a young troop losing his vision or body
parts, and suffering for the rest of his life is a
trivial matter.

As is the downfall of a nation. Do you work for
Osama bin Laden?


--

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and I really
don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
-- George W. Bush, March 13, 2002


"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook, on the rape, torture and murder
at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
(http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm)


"I think this is the worst government the US has ever
had in its more than 200 years of history. It has
engaged in extraordinarily irresponsible policies not
only in foreign policy and economics but also in social
and environmental policy.....This is not normal government
policy. Now is the time for people to engage in civil
disobedience. I think it's time to protest - as much as
possible....What we have here is a form of looting."
- George A. Akerlof, 2001 Nobel prize laureate economist

"One of the things we don't want to do is destroy the
infrastructure in Iraq because in a few days we're going
to own that country," - Tom Brokaw

Cost of probing Bill Clinton's sex life: $65 million.
Cost of probing the Columbia shuttle disaster: $50 million.
Funds assigned to independent Sept. 11 panel: $3 million.

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/


"After all, it is the leaders of the country who determine
the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the
people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to
do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the
peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country
to danger. It works the same in any country."
-- Hermann Goering, President of the Reichstag, Nazi Party, and
Luftwaffe Commander in Chief

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"You know, when bu$h said that he's against nation building,
I didn't realize that he meant only the United States"
-- Al Franken

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...


"Personally, I don't think all the Iraqis on earth are
worth even a single American life." - Tim Kreitz

 

Let me add another...more experienced. We get to see more, we get to debate
it professionally more often, we get our conclusions and ideas peer reviewed
by others in and out of the industry, etc etc.

Amateurs, sure, they are free to speculate at will....

Did you find this one on the tar sands yet?

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/canada.html

The part I find amusing is where they say

"The massive increase in reserves reflects the Journal's inclusion of
Alberta's oil sands, which stood at 174.4 billion barrels as of January
2004, according to Alberta Energy and Utilities Board (EUB). In contrast,
conventional crude oil and condensate stood at an estimated 4.5 billion
barrels, as reported by Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers (CAPP).
Some analysts, however, have questioned the new assessment and whether it is
accurate and appropriate to include oil sands."

So, in 2001 Alberta had 4.5BBO in reserves and then PRESTO! Accounting
change, and its right behind Saudi Arabia. So the tar sands weren't there in
the 90's and BLAMMO they appeared and became reserves?

So, what happens when some Iraqi engineer casts an eye around the 90% of his
country which hasn't been explored and says..."gee...looks like 300 BBO to
me!" and BLAMMO the next day Canada gets bumped back to 3rd in the oil
reserves game?

Something else I noticed, 2 BCF/Day natural gas usage just to create the
oil, thats an operating cost on the order of $120,000,000 / Day to create
the oil....holy crap, no wonderful people are so gun shy of these things,
the entire US averages something like 60 BCF/ D, creating oil requires 3.3%
of the total usage of the US in natural gas......yikes.....ugly stuff....

 

Fine...you want to play semantic games, cool. Consumption of oil is bad,
creation of oil from tar sands is bad, drilling for oil is bad, drilling for
tar sand oil and strip mining for same oil is worse than just drilling for
it, we should all live in caves so we don't "punish" the environment.

This is a riot though, the local proponent of tar sands whining about the
environmental damage of CONSUMING or DRILLING for it versus his personal
favorite....STRIP MINING it. Yup....you got me on that one....

 

So you think its okay for saddam to torture and kill but HEY...the instant
WE do it...its suddenly bad now? I always figured the torturing and killing
was just bad in general, no matter who was doing it, and should be stopped
whenever possible by those of us capable of stopping it. Obviously, this
idea is disagreeable to those who think the US military is best used for
what, cleaning up after hurricanes?

And do you know WHY the Palestinians are so pristine and pure? Must be
Israeli agents blowing up the buses full of school kids eh, and then we just
blame the poor Palestinians?

There is no such thing as "Palestinian" land, it belonged to Egypt and
Jordan.....who are you to invent things which aren't true and hand them out?
How would you like it if someone took your house away and then gave it to
the squatters who took it over after you left?

 

Seems the big oil companies disagree with you. After all they are the
ones spending billions up there. They must see value and return on
invested capital. Or are they all amateurs too and should bow to your
expertise simply because you work in the field.



Don Binns
84 - Virago 1000

When an ill wind blows you can either build a hut or hoist a sail.

http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/reeky.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/banff.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/kananaskis.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/walkercalgary.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/calgarybrowning.htm