Merde ! Paging those who know about nasty looking bits of stuff found in engine sump mesh filters.

Today I decided to change the oil in the Voxan given its impending
thrash round Cadwell. I've only done this myself once before as Patrick
at Pointe de Corde in Limoges has usually done it as part of a service.
I discovered, however, that the oil filter is the same as one Aprilia
use and Wemoto were able to supply one.

TBF I was half expecting what I found. It hasn't been used much since
being brought home down the M6 from Liverpool after last year's Manx at
shall we just say speeds that gave me a very stiff neck and shoulders
from the wind blast. It has been sounding a bit thrumbly and knocky
since then under load around 4000 rpm, and more ominous, a rumble at
tickover which disappears when the clutch is pulled in.

Searching the VCF web site suggests that though mine had a 'kit evo'
fitted before it was sent to me from the factory, there was also a bad
batch of 'flaky main bearings'. The engine numbers quoted seem to
include mine.

Here are some photos of what I found on opening up the dry sump gauze
strainer. It looks horribly like flakes of something. At least the
strainer had done it's job as there was no sign of any in the fabric
filter, or the oil tank gauze strainer. The coppery colour has got me
wondering a bit though.


http://www.ps-fisher.demon.co.uk/pickchurs/Voxan/DSC01026.jpg
http://www.ps-fisher.demon.co.uk/pickchurs/Voxan/DSC01028.jpg

It's fucked isn't it?

I'm seeking a second opinion from the VCF technical forum, but it looks
as if it may need to go back to Patrick in October for an engine
rebuild.

I don't fancy doing Cadwell only on a 125, so it looks as if that trip
may be off as I have nothing else suitable these days. The Forgotten
Error isn't much quicker than the GFR and I was told by the stroker
experts at Curborough that the sounds coming from the YZ mean its on
borrowed time and I may be having a rebuild on that over the winter.
Blowing it up in terminal fashion might make that even more expensive.

Hopefully there may be someone who is a reserve, because the last time I
looked I think even the Eyeore's group was full.

Arse.
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

The bearing shells are copper coloured - when the white metal is worn
through the shell material shows through.

The flakes would concern me a little but they don't seem to be blue from
something breaking up and getting hot so I'd change the oil and filter
and check it again in a couple of hundred miles - no more flakes =
nothing to worry about.

Might be worth having a look at the clutch plates to see if anything has
come off them.

 

I'm used to that. This is more of a rumble than a rattle. A bit like the
noise the Oktavia was making, which was diagnosed as gearbox primary
input shaft bearings.

True. My French translation isn't really up to the task so I may have
got the wrong end of the stick.

Being a dry sump design it would have to get very low to not keep
everything supplied with oil. When changing the oil you have to put in
just 2 litres to begin with, then turn the motor over for quite a while
to get oil through the system, before putting in the final 1.5. Hence
the quaint kill switch design which permits this without fear of the
motor starting.

It has never needed topping up with a load of oil.

I'm hoping a frog will pop up and say it's 'normalement'. I've never
actually had the strainer out before. Just drained the oil while
drilling and wiring the sump plug, strainer bolts and oil filter screws
when first preparing it for the hills.


--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

Further examination confirms that these flakes are definitely
non-ferrous.

It would help if I had ever looked in this mesh filter before, but I've
never seen anything like this before in any engine.
The bad batch was IIRC main crankcase bearing races rather than big end
shells, but I'm seeking clarification from the VCF.

Possibly.

I may as well finish the oil change (It will be getting Castrol 10w-60
as recommended by Pointe de Corde) and start it up again I suppose.

The noise is hard to describe. I know Pirsig mentioned his Honda having
a 'nickels and dimes' sound that was no problem, but this sounds more
like 2 pound pieces clattering around randomly, but only under load.
TBF, once the revs are well up it gets lost in the intake roar.


--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

Eek. Hard to get scale from those, but it doesn't look like any normal
wear debris I've ever seen. I fear it is indeed fucked :-(

 

If they are that worn, I'd expect *lots* of noise, but wibble flip.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

I quite agree - but if bits are falling off them rather than being worn
out that may account for the bits in the sump and lack of knocking -
although mains tend to rumble, big ends knock.

 

If all the white metal had gone and the shell was falling apart at that
kind of rate, IWHT that the amount of play would be *huge*. Never mind
rumble or knock, but a bag of spanners in a washer might be more
appropriate

You are, however, far more knowledgeable than I.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 13:00:50 +0100, Pete Fisher wrote:

<snip>

Oooooh! Goldschlager!

 

VBG

 

The 125s will cope fine around Cadwell, especially in the slow /
middle groups. I'll hopefully be out for some sessions on a CR500
which probably struggles to get to 100. Just don't slow down.

flook

 

I've taken a GFR there before, and it is quite fun, for a while. That
was in a group that only consisted of SO 350 and 500 Morinis otherwise
though, so nobody closing on you at 50mph differential. Your CR may
struggle to get to 100, but I suspect it gets there quicker than a GFR.
If in doubt flat out, is a good strategy, but the 'mountain' still
knocks the stuffing out it.

It's getting new tyres tomorrow hopefully. I'll see how it feels then
and make sure it is going well with the rewound ignition stator coil. It
felt a bit fluffy at high revs last time out.

I'm waiting on a worst case scenario quote for repair from the dealer
who services the Voxan. Another dealer on the forum confirms that the
crank bearings or big ends, or both are probably toast. If I don't even
start it up again the crank may be salvageable. There is some doubt,
given that the factory was closed a few months ago and everything sold
off, that all the parts required will be available as it is one of the
very early (1999/2000) motors. I can see me selling it in Fance for
spares or repair, or subjecting it to a TOG ebay.fr burial.


--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

In communiqué

Your offer is appreciated.

If I decide the Voxan is a write-off I might even snap up something more
suitable locally.

I can't actually think of a permanent replacement that would fill all my
requirements. A Street Triple is tempting, but I found it a wee bit high
and top heavy feeling when I sat on one at Stafford last October. I'd
also miss the V twin effect. An Aprilia Shiver is a possibility, but I
couldn't be sure until I at least sit on one.

Yes, yes, I know logically I should get a nice SV650, there's a ratty
but functioning one going locally for £800, however, the only time I
ever owned a logical choice of bike was when I won one.

--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

Ooh, think I know the answer to this one.

Yes, looking like I do.

Now I'm almost certain.

Full house! Feel free to have a go on the Raptor anytime you like. OK
you may not want the 1000, but the 650's a cracking bike too.

 

Old air-cooled GSX1100s used bronzey-coloured shells, IIRC. I don't
think all plain bearings are white. I'd be concerned, if it were my
bike.

 

<chuckles>

 

If the history of Italian motorcycle manufacturers had turned out
differently I might have ended up buying a similar machine with a Gilera
badge. There was much talk of Suzuki supplying Piaggio with engines for
'big' bikes, including the nuovo quattro that appeared in prototype
form.

My abiding memory of Raptors is off a guy who turned up at Curborough on
one (a 1000) not long after they came on to the market. Went very well
it did, and he was impressively quick - right up to the point he went
arse over tit. Possibly more a case of the nut holding the handlebars
TBF.

I'll do a bit of research. Having got slightly hooked on the relatively
reasonable amount of power the Voxan produces I fancy something near the
100 BHP mark.
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

The Street Trip's riding position is fractionally on the tall side,
but top-heavy it ain't. And it certainly doesn't have of the V-twin
effect in that it isn't rumbling....

OTOH, it's the best fun bike I've owned since my old RD350 power-
valve. It's absolutely extraordinary, and when you think that all that
power - and it makes power everywhere, not just at the top end - is
coming from a relatively small 675cc engine, you wonder how Triumph
did it.

It's also comfy (if you feet the optional flyscreen cowling, as I did)
and surprisingly good on fuel. Handling and braking are brilliant.
Basically, all the press reports are true. It's a sensational bike.
And did I mention the noise it makes? That snarl is utterly addictive.

Downsides? Not much steering lock, and the instruments fitted to mine
are fiddly insofar as the tripmeter and various functions are just
awkward to access. (Triumph changed them this model year).

 

Feet"? Fit.

 

I thought you were getting into the South America vibe - "How much for
the women?"