Melbourne Protest Rally

Zebee said....

Unfortunately, there are lots of awake, allegedly alert and sober
drivers out there who are capable of hitting bikes, and regularly prove
this....

 

Ta.

Moike

 

In aus.motorcycles on Tue, 09 Nov 2004 20:03:17 +1000

But so far she's only proved she does it when drunk.

So *They* shouldn't be allowed to drive to work, but there's less reason
to ban her.

Zebee

 

Continually repeating a question that has been answered multiple times
is the online equivalent of a 3year old sticking their fingers in their
ears and chanting "lalala I can't hear you".

If you did it to me in real life I would give the exact same reaction. I
have never said anything online that I wouldn't say to someone's face.

I don't argue with 3 year olds, it's a waste of breath. I'm happy to
have a rational discussion as I did with G-S, if he only wants to play
games then I'm not real interested.

JL
(and by the way whether you and Moike are mates is a non sequitur)

 

Agree, and that is indeed the sticking point and in fact the reason for
the need for magistrates as it requires an opinion to be formed. However
if nobody ever tell the magistrate they think he got it wrong and why,
nothing will ever change.

....snip..
All good stuff and I have nothing useful to add to them

Let's not confuse evidence and proof as required at a criminal trial
with the circumstantial level of evidence required for bail.

Bail, IS based on a judge's opinion, and belief is part of that opinion.

The level of demonstration of risk required is whatever is sufficient to
convince the judge that there is a threat to the community, in most real
life cases that has more to do with the socio-economic strata of the
defendant than any other criteria, protests of this type attempt to
influence the belief set the judge uses to ascertain risk. Will it work,
christ knows.

Thought you would ! I was just being a little provocative

No it doesn't (geez are we going to go here again), however it's a far
harsher reading of it than precedent would allow, which means only very
specific circumstances would have to exist in order for it to occur.

JL

 

No, I'm saying the opposite occurs, killing motorcyclists with cars
seems to garner lower penalties than killing pedestrian children for
example. But now we're getting off into sentencing which is a whole
'nother huge discussion I don't really have time to see through, sorry.

....snip...continuation of the tangent
JL

 

Ban cars.

Trucks and bikes only. That'll stuff 'em
JL

 

Sounds very fair and reasonable to me.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

In aus.motorcycles on Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:50:00 +1100

Oh god no!

Imagine the road full of morons on really fast loud bikes.

They still can't pay attention, but they are coming up behind you at a
rate of knots and still cut in front of you.

All the same behaviour, but faster and far less predicable because of
it.

Keep them in cars, just make them pedal cars!

Zebee

 

I raise you my Honda and one suzuki over your Yamaha!!

How dare you have a sensible bike like that.... you should be ashamed
of yourself!

Johno

Coopers ?

 

Naah Darwin gets a guernsey here* - they'll only do that for a few
months before they're laid up in hospital...

JL
* He's playing half-back

 

In aus.motorcycles on Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:02:36 +1100

Taking me with them. NO thanks.

Zebee

 

Say John, d'you reckon I can have some Working Class Ties and Radical
Plans with that? ;-)


BTH

 

Damn! Just when I get sick of a thread for a couple of days, it inspires a
lovely succint rant, and I don't even know who the rantee is. Smee perhaps,
going by the description?


Hehehehehe

 

Nope not me or directed at me.

 

;-)

 

Agreed, but will they change even if they are told? I'm not so sure...

I wasn't really, just throwing red herrings ;-) (I thought you deserved a
herring or two!)

I'm sure the judge thought there was a risk to the community or he wouldn't
have restricted her access to her vehicle. And yes socio-economic status
can influence bail outcomes, but only indirectly I believe. A higher
socio-economic status means that more is lost if one skips bail so that has
the indirect effect of reducing the risk of said person skipping. That
doesn't imply I believe that the judes treat people differently because of
thier status, but instead because of how that status is likely to impact on
thier future actions. A narrow line I know, but a line nether the less.

Thats ok... If you get too provocative I'll throw moldy herrings at you ;-)

I guess it depends upon how one uses the word purpose, and how I misused the
term act.

To clarify my meaning I meant purpose of the act to mean the entirity of the
process that surrounds that act, including precedent, common law etc etc
(but I was typing lazy).


G-S

 

Certainly sir, would you like a copy of Socialist Weekly or Green Left
to wrap that in ?

JL
(vainly hoping he's getting the joke)

 

Actually I was just trying for a subtle reference to Billy Joel's
"Angry Young Man". ;-)


BTH

 

I can't understand you young(ish) people. Here's BT quoting the elderly
Billy Joel, whereas I'd rather quote Billie Joe from Green Day.

Here's what he wrote about about BT's place:

"some call it slums
some call it nice
I want to take you through
a wasteland I like to call my home
Welcome to paradise"