Melbourne Protest Rally

So the solution is to get rid of the good lawyers in the interests of a
'level playing field'?

Moike

 

Nope
Change the legal system so we onl have good lawyers not blood sucking
parasites.
Make the legal system affordable somehow.
We are supposed to be a just society where all are equal in the eyes of
the law but some are more equal than others according to their bank balance.
Its not a system I am comfortable with.
*but then again I'm not comfortable with our mindset wehn it comes to
voting incumbents who would rather wage war on foreign soil rather than
look at out own backyard.*

That greek assport is looking batter all the time.

 

So you think letting her continue to get to work, (but not drive
anywhere else) presents a real risk to society?

Bail. It's a temporary holding position pending a thing we call a
"trial". It's not the final outcome.

So you prefer a legal regime where there are absolute consequences and
magistrates have no leway at all? I suppose an automated system would
be a little cheaper to run, but then you end up with shit like the NT's
mandatory sentencing.

Do you trust our legislators to come up with laws that can be applied
rigorously in every case, without exception, and without taking any
circumstances into account?

Precisely. And if punishment is found to be needed, it will be applied.
If that punishment is inadequate, then you, the victim's family and
everyone else with an interest would be justified in kicking up a stink.

So you were ther at the bail hearing? You have taken the trouble to
know all the circumstances?

What is the flaw in the system that needs such urgent fixing? Can you
come up with an alternative that would not (ever) put innocent people's
life or liberty at risk?

a wise move. I suspect she has had excellent legal advice.

so why is your knee jerking so wildly?

What is the purpose of bail?

In what way did the Magistrates decision subvert that purpose?

 

He allowed her to continue driving after she admitted to and was found
to be intoxicated and killing someone.
As the sister of the victim said "she still has her rights, what rights
did my brother have?"

Lets agree to disagree.
My knee aint jerking either.

 

Has this now become a more general rant, Smee?

In the case at hand, seeing how the accused only holds a part-time job and
lives in Mill Park, which I understand to be a cookie-cutter suburb on the
extreme northern fringe of Melbourne, it's pretty bloody unlikely that her
lawyer would be one of the ones who charge a WRX for a court appearance...

You might want to look into just how the French justice system works, Smee.
The widespread spying on the populace, extended detention without charge and
active official undermining of the defence in select case which we hold up
as evidence of the US having finally lost the plot as a country... that
stuff's been a part of civil life in France since before the Revolution...

 

I agree that the legal aid budget is woefully inadequate.

The ongoing education requirements for lawyers are fairly extensive (but
not comprehensive). That could be improved.

OK, come up with a means of eliminating all but the best lawyers, and
then find the funding that will make them available to all.

THEN...
to ensure we get only good lawyers/doctors/policemen/etc, lets get rid
of all but the best teachers, and make it illegal for poeple to send
their kids to private schools. That would work. It couldn't cost that
much....

Depressing times. Still, it's kind of reassuring to know that the
septics are no more intelligent than us when it comes to assessing their
'leaders'.

So, how does one apply?

Argentina might be easier. I understand that visas are easy to get, can
be extended without limit, and citizenship is automatic after 5 years.
They don't even have mandatory detention of refugees!

Moike

 

I notice you snipped the line that asked "What is the purpose of bail?"

That way you can reply to the next question without addressing it.

Maybe you should have a chat with the legal studies teacher.

That line about "she has her rights, what rights did my brother have" is
nicely emotive, but totally irrelevant to the purpose of bail.

Of course, it would be meaningful if you were looking at bail as a means
of retribution. But you said you weren't........

That knee of yours is leaping up and down so fast I can feel the
vibrations in Footscray.

I think it's good that you have an emotional reaction to all this, but
you should not let it cloud your reason.

That sort of response is what got George W back.

Moike

 

Yeah, but the only lumpy bits, where the twisty roads will be, are right on
the other side of the country from all the population centres.

Truth be told, since the election, I've actually gone one better than Smee
and renewed my Croatian passport.

 

Having Greek Parentage All I have to do is approach the Greek consulate
and fill out the appropriate forms, pay the appropriate manies and wait
the selected time required.
Even though I was born here Apparently under Greek law five generations
of foreign born greek heritage is good enough.
Good thing about it is then you have free membership into the European
community. (A bit saner than the seppos and Howard at the minute.)

 

I don't know about you but I'm not one for being reamed up the arse
(despite what people may think) and have to accept a corrupt system
like yourself.
I don't accept it and will voice an opinion.
Don't like it fine?
I'm not asking you to change yours.
Don't ask me to change mine or try and convince me otherwise.
I don't play your games Paul I'll leave that to Kimbo and other soft
touches.

 

Don't count me as part of that lynch mob mentality please or I'll have
5000 of my friends around your place knocking on your door

Always the cold calculated paulh without the suds.

 

nitpick all you want Paul
You are not going to change my mind.

 

The current system in Victoria works in such a way that the registered owner
of any vehicle which travels past a speed cameras at 86kph in a 60kph zone and
who cannot identify the driver who committed the offence shall have their
licence suspended and shall not be allowed to drive anywhere, including to
work. As I understand it there are no "driving to work" exemptions for people
(eg tradesmen) who need a licence to earn an income, as there were in the old
days.

In contrast doesn't it seem quite extraordinary to grant an exemption to
someone who has apparently admitted to drink driving and against whom there
appears to be substantial evidence to suggest that another road user died as a
result of that drink driving?

Nev..
'03 ZX12R

 

don't forget to use "alleged " or else paulh will nitpick you to boredom

 

My understanding is that in the circumstances you set out, the
registered owner would have the option of having the matter heard before
the courts. On the spot fines are not summary judgement. They simply
allow a simplified process where the allegation is uncontested.

However, on the assumption that you are right, and without prejuice....

I find it quite extraordinary that we would put up with a legislature
that thinks it is so faultless that it can make blanket penalties with
no form of appeal. The lack of any recourse violates the fundamental
legal/ethical principle of due process. Fortunately, it seems that the
draconian victorian speeding laws are one of the few instances of such
legislative abuse.

Your solution to this problem is to have such an inflexible approach in
all instances where a penalty might apply.

I disagree.

I believe that there should always be some room for circumstances to be
taken into account. If that means that on some occasions a guilty party
wriggles out of it, then so be it. That's better than a system that
inflicts unreasonable punishment on the innocent.

It's kind of like the "beyond reasonable doubt" thing that allows some
guilty parties to get off but minimises the risk that the innocent will
be wrongly punished.

Your way *is* simpler. It would probably be easier for the US
electorate to understand.....


Moike

 

There is a huge difference between nit picking and expecting you to use
your brain.

You say it isn't about punishment, then rave on about the effect on the
victim's family.

Just try to answer this one question.

What did the magistrate do that violated the purposes of granting bail?

But first, check with your legal studies colleague about the meaning and
intention of bail.

Hint:
It has nothing to do with victim impact.
It has nothing to do with punishment.
It has nothing to do with retribution.
It has nothing to do with 'fairness'.


Moike
(please tell me you don't teach comprehension)

 

You do need to pay for justice unfortuantly. My brother had to go to court
and it was surprising watching the other people with the Legal Aid
solicitors compared to the ones with the "better paid" solicitors. My
brother and another guy had similar charges but he didn't fair as well as my
brother did.

(I think it didn't help the other guy that he rocked up in a d12 jumper and
my bro was wearing a suit)

 

<snip everything>

Beer fellas?

 

I would like to see justice done.

The legal system has very little to do with justice.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

Not now, I have to keep working on Smee or we'll lose him.....

Moike