Mad? yes, quite probably

After a divorce and a couple of failed relationships, I have decided
that what I need is a project to help take my mind off things. In my
teens I had a couple of motor cycles, an 80 cc Suzuki and a BSA SS80
but went to cars before I got the chance to get what I really wanted - a
chunky 650 twin.

So I was thinking, buy old wreck, do it up as a project, treat with TLC
and pootle round on sunny Sunday afternoons. May as well make the most
of not having anyone to tell me off about leaving bits of SOB all over
the house.

Yeah, mad, like the subject line says.

I've read the FAQ and had a bit of help from Mike so know I should get
something with all the bits. But I do want one that needs to be
'restored'. If it's a wreck, I'd simply have to do it, if it's just
tatty, I would probably live with it, but I'd never be happy.

So how much am I looking at for a knackered 60's 650 and are they
reasonably easy to come by? And approximately how much do things cost,
eg re-chroming, re upholstering, re-finishing a tank etc.?

Finally, I'm not an ace mechanic, though I've pretty good idea of how
things work. What jobs should I definitely not tackle myself?

 

Geoff Berrow was seen penning the following ode to ... whatever:

Funny, I know *exactly* what you mean...

TBH I wouldn't start out tackling a wreck. If it's a total wreck, the
restoration cost to bike value ratio is simply out of this
world. Unless it's works Vincent racer or something else that's just
about irreplaceable. TOG might be the exception - the Monkey bike he
just restored in Sick Mechanics was a wreck in just about everybody's
opinion, but then again he really, really knows what he's doing. And
he still ran over budget and that's with having it painted bathroom
blue. Repainting it in the correct colour (which I probably would've
done) would have made it prohibitively expensive.

Get something rather tatty but at least running, or even better
something that'll definitely need a restoration but it MOT'd and
Taxed. The idea being that you'll take some components off (say, the
forks), restore them properly and but them back on. Next, you'll do
the engine, or the wheels...

That'll allow you a breather between working on the bike, and it'll
also mean that when you've lost motivation (and you will at some part
during the project), you can at least ride the thing.

Refinishing the bodywork (for simplicity, let's assume that it's just
the tank and sidepanels) can cost anything between 250 and 500 quid
from a proper, experience painter. This mainly depends on the
condition of the parts (it's going to be more expensive if they have
to be repaired) but it should include blasting by someone who actually
knows what they're doing.

Chrome is hard to say - I paid about 120 odd-quid to have a pair of
Honda CB750 mudguards rechromed. They didn't need any repairs, again
once you need repairs you're talking mucho dinero.

Upholstering isn't that expensive either - there are a few people
advertising this service in the back of Classic Bike and the like.

You'll find that the main work will be taking bits off, repairing
them, searching for them because they aren't repairable any more etc
blah blah ad nauseam.

Speaking of "are they hard to come by", I'd say not really, the main
problem will be to avoid buying somebody else's bodge job that looks
better than it is. These are fairly popular bikes so you'll find that
they are fairly expensive, but not necessarily good VFM.

Anything that'll involve machining for starters, mostly because you
can't afford the equipment...

 

Strewth. Just about anything with a Made In England label from that era
is silly money these days.

Decent re-chroming for brightwork is *expensive*. Rechroming fork
stanchions, OTOH, is only about 45 quid a side - but you can often find
new or pattern stanchions for the same money.

Paint? Depends. If you want an as-new OE job, better budget at least 500
quid for (say) frame, tank, panels and mudguards. If you ain't worried
about what colour it is, tote the lot down to a car sprayer and ask him
if, next time he's spraying (say) something black (or red, or whatever)
to do yours, too.

But remember that decent pre-preparation is three quarters of the key to
a good finish.

Seat re-upholstering: R K Leighton in Brum are the people here. Maybe a
ton. Or Lozzo, on this very ng.

Anything with a Vincent badge....

Seriously, there are so many utterly shagged knackered old Brit bikes
out there being given a swift blow-over and polish..... I'd take SWK
with you, and sort the wheat from the chaff.

Better, IMHO, to get something cosmetically tidy but in need of
mechanical sorting, but that's because I can fiddle with engines and not
paint. On a Brit bike, you might want something cosmetically challenged
with with the mechanicals in A1 order.

I actually reckon you'd be better off going for a 500 twin like a T100,
or Beeza A7. Or a Royal Oilfield 500 Meteor. Sweeter engines, much
cheaper than Bonnies and A65s, and just as much fun, in their way.

 

Lada Blue *if* you please......

 

The Older Gentleman was seen penning the following ode to ... whatever:

And any proper painter worth their money will _not_ let you do the
prep work. It's the prep work that's the real expensive bit because of
the manual work involved, not really the "blowing paint in the right
direction".

TBH I don't think you can get one like that, mostly because the owner
won't be selling it.

I think your approach (something with a knackered engine but tidy
cosmetics) will be the cheaper one in the longer run, simply because
this is work you can undertake at home to a large extent, it normally
doesn't require hunting down elusive mudguards on the other side of
the world, and so on.

OTOH there are quite a lot of bikes that look really good - duff
mechanics or not - but the only good bit about them is the top coat,
'cos the rest is chicken wire, newspaper and a little skim of filler.

Like, if you're building your dream machine that you'll never part
with, you'll end up with a full rebuild no matter how good the bike
was when you got it.

Not to mention that they're probably less common as well, if that
floats yer boat.

 

I had the Guzzi seat done, very well, by a local firm of car upholsters
£90.

 

sweller said...

How fucking much? You were right royally ripped off there matey.

A metre of the correct grade of seating vinyl or Ambla is between 6 and
10 quid. That's usually 48 or 60 inches wide. You'd get at least 6 full
size bike seats from a metre of vinyl 60 inches wide.

A minimal amount of pattern making/cutting adds half hours labour, then
possibly 20 minutes on the sewing machine stitching it all together.
When you've got the cover all made up, you're looking at no more than 20
minutes to fit it with the proper staple gun.

I'd regard anything over 50 quid as being a rip-off. I've made more
complex vinyl car seat covers and fitted them for less than 90 quid.

My biggest problem now is I don't have a cutting table, sewing machine
or a compressor to run the pneumatic staple gun that I don't own any
more.

 

Put like that it does seem very expensive.

But ... all the quotes I had were around the £70-£100 mark and these
people came recommended. Unfortunately they have skills and tools I
don't possess.

If I'd got a cheap and nasty pattern cover (which I can't for my early
narrow type seat) for £20+vat+p&p and paid someone to fit it at,
probably, £30 p/h it would still be around £60. So not too far off the
£88 I did pay.

 

I think the BSA twins tend to be comparatively cheap. Triumphs seem to
fetch eye-watering amounts. If I get to Newark tomorrow, I shall have
a butcher's to get an idea of prices.

I know a bloody good painter in Coventry. Not just good, but also very
reasonably priced, although you need not to be in a hurry...

The T100s are fetching huge money these days. A shame, because I'd
rather like another 5TA or similar...

 

The Older Gentleman was seen penning the following ode to ... whatever:

I'm not sure which of the two is worse...

BTW, do you either have a manual for the GT380 I could borrow at some
point and/or a few parts left over?

 

This guys just done the seat on my Beemer ... very pleased for 50 quid

http://www.touchchester.com/comdir/cditem.cfm/2351

--
Steve Parry

http://www.gwynfryn.co.uk

http://wrexhamseals.tripod.com

 

Well, I guess if I ever do get to the point where I am having bits done
up it would be a good idea to ask here first...

 

If you can manage a C15 then a Triumph twin should be a dream .....
Steve the grease

 

I noticed that Message-ID:

Hey, the SS80 was a C15 on steroids!

It /was/ prone to knocking out big ends...

 

I can remember my mate literally crying with frustration as he kicked his
C15 SS80 up and down the road because it wouldn't start (6 volt electrics)
and he wanted to go off and f*** his girlfriend. He wouldn't give in and buy
a jap bike though.
Steve the grease

 

Got some engine covers and a set of carbs which are prolly fecked but
will yield useful jets, needles, floats etc. Yours for free if you come
& get them. And a Haynes BoL, of course, which you're welcome to borrow.

Oh, and gasket sets. Not free: complete pattern gasket set for a tenner.

 

For some reason, these made me LOL.

 

The Older Gentleman was seen penning the following ode to ... whatever:

Ta, will do. Unlikely to happen before mid-Jan though as SWMBO flies
in Thursday and stays for 2 1/2 weeks. No ShiteOldBiking during that
time, I'm afraid...

Hmm. I'll probably need one, sooner or later...

 

The Older Gentleman was seen penning the following ode to ... whatever:

C15 - more effective than condoms.

 

A mate reckons he managed to ensnare his wife, then girlfriend, purely
because she was going out with a bloke who had a Honda CB500T at the
time (this was a long time ago), and it kept breaking down, so Richard
kept giving her lifts.

Oh yeah: reminds me.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2448756945