Listen up, you tx.moto wimps...

As much time as I spend on this sucker, you might have something, there..
Kinda goes with the territory when you get my age, though..

'Preciate the input.. All that downshifting stuff is virtually instinctive
with most of us and we aren't really aware that we are doing it..

Sure.. I made that catch.. Took it as good humor on your part.. Yeah,
tx.motorcycles is kind of a local type hangout and a lot of us ride to-
gether.. bet'cha won't find a "wimp" in the bunch <wide grin> Except
for Wakko and Louie, of course.. Those two big apes are pussies of
the extreme.. The rest are pretty average, except Morgan Kane.. One
of the participants at Breckenridge.. That dude looks like an NFL line-
backer.. hmmm.. Kinda rides his Harley like I'd imagine a linebacker
might.. Him and Wakko made all of us take some deep breaths on a
ride down into those mountains in Mexico.. Damn.. you talking motor-
cycle handling.. those big boys were winding the shit out of their
Harleys on that run.. Any sport biker or stunter would have been amazed..

I can appreciate that.. To some degree, there is some of that on this
newsgroup, as well.. It never seems to escalate to the extent of some
of the flaming I've seen on rec.motorcycles.. Got pretty vicious a few
times in the past, but the past couple of years.. these guys have done
some riding and established a few unspoken boundaries, at least with
each other.. Even reeky is somewhat tamer than it was a few years ago..

OK, Don.. sure enjoyed the exchange and look forward to next time..
btw.. Forget all that dodging, weaving and reloading shit and pay attention
the those doctors and the bride.. OK ? Ride it like you just stole it..
every
day is important..

 

With all due respect and without any flame attached.. try this
little experiment.. From light to light .. start from standstill ..
as your speed increases, you will shift to high end.. When
you observe the necessity to stop, tap the rear brake and
shift to a lower gear.. You will feel the motorcycle react by
slowing.. co-ordinating the clutch action, downshifting and
using the brakes, each downshift, you will feel the bike
react by slowing.. until you've finally come to a dead stop..
At this point, you should be sitting with both feet on the pave-
ment, the clutch disengaged and in the correct gear to pro-
ceed.. With some practice.. the co-ordination of all these
elements isn't as complicated as it might read.. It becomes
instinctive to most of us, the longer we ride.

It is my opinion that anyone who grabs the clutch and nails
the brakes has given up much of his control of that motor-
cycle and is much more prone to lose it.. I've ridden with
many riders who don't use their engine to help with traction..
Some of them .. you could smell the hot brakes on their
bikes when we stopped.. We'd just rode the same curves
and highway, together.. no panic stops involved.. I'd also
be powering away from a curve while they were lugging
their engines .. We weren't competing so there was no
usenet flame war involved.. mostly.. "hey buddy, try
adjusting your weight more to the rear wheel and dropping
down a gear or two as you ride that curve, it might help you
to avoid the wide swings and save those brakes a little"..
In each and every case.. the response would be.. "hey, thanks
that is much easier and smoother"..

I'm not much concerned about how anyone rides their motor-
cycle on usenet.. <shrug> The grabit and hold on advocates
are not giving good advice and the advances in brake systems
are not addressing all aspects that is required to maintain
control of that bike during a stop..

Bill Walker
Irving, Tx.

 

And of course it depends on the situation. For example, I wouldn't
stay on the rear brake in a skid if it means losing steering control
and slamming into a tree. I don't skid much to begin by trying to
avoid getting myself into situations that require it, by taking
evasive or prep action ahead of time.

So skidding is not something I have done much of. If I did then I'd
want to reassess my riding skill as to what habits I had that got me
into those situations.

I think the original poster said something about learning the feel of
braking he was told to lock up the front wheel and that by the time he
did that (hopefully) he was going less than 35mph. That's when I said
what I said. And it was something along the lines of "ever".

As for being able to help it, there are times you make a mistake;
squeeze too hard on the front brake and you can lock it up. I've done
that once - in snow. I didn't go down, but it was enough for me never
to want to lose front wheel traction again, which is easy enough to do
in the snow without braking.

I didn't mean I pump the clutch, alternately creating and then losing
traction. This is all in the heat of the moment of a quick stop. These
are all minute movements coordinated with many other movements of
steering, leaning, glancing in mirrors to figure another way out - all
within the seconds you have to react.

I didn't mean for it to sound like I was flailing my arms and
disengaging/reengaging the engine while flipping away on the brakes,
hoping and praying that I'll stop. -

Greg

 

Trying to impress chicks with a Goldwing?

What age were they, Redshad? In their 60's?

 

Yeah I think I have mellowed a bit since those days too.
Having the kiddo makes me think of the more important things in life.
You can still mix it up pretty good Bill, and I'll take you on when I have
the energy. (With a 2 year old running around the house it surely won't be
as frequent!)
I do realize my advice might not have been correct for newbies, but I also
disagree with the statement that both brakes are needed for maximum braking
in all situations.


--

Andrew
00 Daytona
00 Speed Triple
71 Kawi H1
05 Kiddo

 

Yeah, I've heard that latter objection before, Bob - that brake pads
are cheaper to replace than clutches.

Problem is, it isn't true. Brake pads is expensive, man!

I've been using engine-braking to the maximum on my Road Glide since
it was new. Still haven't worn out the clutch after 110,000 miles.
Spents lots on brakes in that period through (and would have spent
even more, without engine-braking).

 

Hehehe...No..They were probably more like in there late 20's. Chicks
dig them Goldwings. They are probably the ones that have been dumped
off there boyfriends crotch rockets though.

Redshad

 

And dem dere clutches ain't?

Well, yeah, and I do believe that I DID note that this
was a minor concern either way. My point was just
that it's an utter non-issue from the perspective of
braking alone (more generically, "slowing down").
We might engine-brake to save wear and tear; we
certainly downshft so as to be in the correct gear at
any given moment. We don't engine-brake because
it's a more effective way of slowing the thing down.

Bob M.

 

Ah, the road-rashed variety!

 

No disagreement there, and I do the same thing. My
point was not that engine-braking doesn't work, or
that downshifting while slowing isn't in general a good
idea. Just that it really has nothing whatsoever with being
the most effective means of slowing down and stopping
- we do it for other reasons.

IF that's what a rider is doing in a routine stop, I most
certainly agree with you. Reminds me of the way my
16-year-old daughter currently brakes as we're out
in the cage, exercising her learner's permit - wait until
we're RIGHT THERE BY GOD AT THE LINE, and
then brake for all she's worth. She doesn't seem to
understand my comments (given, of course, with
saintlike patience and in a calm and reassuing manner...)
regarding how this might not be the best way to bring
the vehicle to a stop, and someday she may pull that
sort of stunt and find out that the brakes are on
vacation - and then what?

But there's routine stops, and there's (hate to use this
phrase again, given recent...uhhh..."discussions"
here) "minimum distance" stops, AKA "emergency
stops," AKA "please Gawd get this thing stopped
NOW and don't let me hit that (insert favorite large
solid object here)" stops. In those cases, the last thing
you want to be doing is complicating your life (or what
little time you may have left in it, if you don't do this
right) by trying to simultaneously downshift/engine-brake
while keeping the brakes just this side of lock-up
AND keeping you and the bike headed in the same,
and presumably the desired, direction. Agreed?

Tell me about it; I live in Colorado, a state which I
think you'll agree has something of a reputation for
roads that aren't exactly straight-'n'-level. Come
down Trail Ridge Road, or Pike's Peak, any day
during the summer and you can spot the tourists
with the always-on brake lights - or at least you will
spot them after about 2-3 miles of smelling their
brakes. But that's not really "helping with traction,"
if by "traction" we mean the usual "how well the
tires grip the road" sort of thing. Using a lower
gear to keep a vehicle's speed under control IS
a replacement for riding the brakes (a bad thing,
to be sure), but this isn't really "traction control"
and isn't but marginally related to how we do routine
stops.

Yup. I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with the
notion that there maybe IS a reason these things have
more than one gear...

Good. I ain't never ridden my motor-sickle on that
usenet thing, anyway....

Bob M.

 

Oh, and I almost forgot. Brake rotors! They're expensive too.

I know, 'cause I just replaced the one on my rear wheel this summer.
Plus, if you don't replace it before it gets too thin, you'll probably
be replacing the calipers too.

And that darned clutch is still holding up...

 

Nah.. you fat, pus-gutted bastard.. LOL You are playing usenet..
The thread is still in place and intact.. Try again..

 

Nah.. RedShad isn't that old, Don.. He's a youngster compared to you
and I.. That sucker can sure ride a motorcycle, too.. About as good a
bike handler as you'll ride with.. Good company, too..

 

Almost.. Me and the RedShad were both hauling a couple of those chicks
when I did that miraculous stop.. Gotta say one thing, that little two up
that
was with me that day, sure did her job..In hindsight, I don't think I'd have
got
this old Green Vulcan shut down without her little bit of weight back
there..

In all respect to her, she leaned straight into my back and didn't move
after
that.. You better believe, I was in total pucker mode and thinking "Oh Shit"

But .. it worked out.. got the Green One stopped and everyone was safe..
BTW.. we'd just had that belt conversion put on the Green Vulcan that day
and I was kinda tryin' 'er out a little bit.. I'm sold on belt drive ..

 

Gotta keep those priorities in order, Andrew.. Been there, done that and
lived through it all.. hmmm.. Sometimes that was doubtful..

I don't remember saying that, but it could've been interpreted that way
during
the rush to recognition .. lol.. I think I suggested using that engine in
collaboration
with alternating both brakes.. Of course the clutch is included in all that
unless the
rider is downshifting without clutching.. which is risky to the drive
train..

Regards..

Bill Walker

 

<dryly> Apparently you aren't riding around in top gear all the time,
like I am. </dryly>

 

--Redshad of Tx.Moto says: ''Is it possible to do a stoppie on a
Goldwing? How do you unhook that link brakeing bullshit? Thats
bullshit..I tried one of them damn stoppies when I went to lunch and
that fucking Goldwing just stopped real fast. There were 3 hot chicks in
a trans-am I was trying to show off for.
Redshad ---

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bjay of Tx.Moto responds: Those guys over on Reekyville, dont know Jack
about them big Ol' Goldwings. They have no idea how a GW, with the
'right' Texas Rider, can stay up and usually stay ahead of just about
anything those Reeky guys ride.......I'd like to see TM, Binns, or RGD,
go on a ride with TxMotos finest GW riders...that would be an event to
remember.-----------bjay--------------

‘‘..Some mistakes are too much Fun, to only make once..’’

 

You could always remove the fluid from the rear reservior, or introduce
bunch of air into the rear brake line.




--

Andrew
00 Daytona
00 Speed Triple
71 Kawi H1
05 Kiddo

 

Top Gear is my favorite TV show right now.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/


--

Andrew
00 Daytona
00 Speed Triple
71 Kawi H1
05 Kiddo

 

Redshad,

If you are going to try and impress chicks, you have to be one of those
world class champion track riders that know everything and are now infecting
our group.

It was not enough for them to hang in reeky and alt.motorcycle.sportbike
impressing each other with their feats and knowledge, they got to come here
and impress us with their manly riding skills.

If you want credibility, your next post needs to explain how your Goldwing
stops faster just using the front brake while doing a stoppie and you do it
on a track with the Wing all the time.

Goddamn ignorant posers all of them.