Listen up, you tx.moto wimps...

THE BACKGROUND:

Okay tx.moto. Listen up, 'cause I'll explain this to you only once.
There's nobody on rec.moto denigrating the use of engine-braking for
slowing down. Got that straight?

What really happened was that - in the context of a thread devoted to
maximum-braking techniques (titled "Achieving Minimum Braking
Distance") - Brother Bill offered an innocent, little suggestion about
the use of engine-braking when it comes to stopping a bike.

He immediately got jumped on by everybody in rec.moto.

Now, I know what Bill was really getting at (because I asked him to
clarify) but, by then it was too late. By then, everybody thought
Bill was claiming that a combination of using brakes together with
engine-braking was the best way to bring a bike to a full stop in the
shortest distance possible during an emergency. [1]

Can't say I blame the folks here too much because, when I read his
post, that's what I thought Bill was claiming too! Turns out he just
doesn't want people to forget the importance of engine-braking, is
all. Fair enough.

THE CHALLENGE:

People coming forward with riding advice DO get challenged and tested
rigorously, here on Reeky - which is why you guys are where you are.

That fact is that Reeky is consistently the most reliable source of
information on usenet when it comes to riding techniques. If you want
to know something about riding, this is the place to come to for sound
advice. We're able to do this because we don't carry water for
*nobody*.

Shoot, these guys here have been known to question even what I say.
Can you imagine that?

So it's time to gird up your loins and stand up like men, tx.moto.
Let's see if your little group of sycophants can do something a step
up from giggling along the sidelines. State your opinion and see it
you can survive in the big leagues:

The Challenge: Describe what technique is best for stopping a
motorcycle in the shortest possible distance.

And remember... Reeky is listening...


Oops. Almost forgot: <evil grin> (the *original*)


[1] You know: Gear down, let out the clutch, shift down another
gear, let out the clutch again... all the while, also working the
brakes.

 

Challenge answered: Pay the **** attention to what's in front of you.
Buy a bike that's worth a shit. Learn the limits of the bike to fit in
distances where you might have to squeeze through. Learn to use the
front brake to stop and the back brake to control the bike.

How do you stop in the shortest amount of distance? Don't go fast!

Gee, that was simple....

 

For "stopping a motorcycle in the shortest possible distance", the
best technique is also the simplest - slam into the truck or car in
front of you. The bigger the car or truck, the faster you will stop.
You didn't say anything about safely stopping -

Greg

 

That's how most riders look at it. Simply stop as fast you can, using
all braking techniques. Every rider, has their own techiques for all
aspects of going and coming, and stopping. Like you say above...''not
paying attention'' can be costly. One has to pay, for ''paying''
attention. It aint free. If it was free, everybody would be doing it,
and there might not be any, or atleast, very few MC accidents. (pretty
good meta4's huh?)

 

There's that word again. Crap, even RGD is using fancy words. What
has the world come to?

 

You left out shouting, "Oh shit!" (If you have time, of course.)

J

 

If I am going to stop in the Minimum Distance, the rear wheel won't be on
the ground, so what good is the back brake?


--

Andrew
00 Daytona
00 Speed Triple
71 Kawi H1
05 Kiddo

 

Oh yeah? Still learning to ride, are you?

And to think Road Plow bragged about how much helpful information came
from rec.moto....

You guys are a silly waste of time.

 

Not too sure about all that.. Matter of fact, there were a few comments
about downshifting being without value when stopping a motorcycle..
The context was also to the effect of some (assumed rookie) guy who
was practicing to stop his motorcycle in a parking lot.. A friend was try-
ing to help him and he (the rookie) wasn't real satisfied with the quality
of help he was getting..

lol.. Key words here.. "innocent and suggestion" hmmm.. Again.. my
impression of the thread was the guy was in a parking lot trying to learn
how to stop a motorcycle.. Maybe, you can reread the OP and discover
a different impression of his post.. We can reread it together if you'd
care to do the cut and paste deal.. <chuckle> My computer expertise
is limited and I haven't perfected the cut and paste technique..

However.. I will say that I've got a pretty good handle on the importance
of maintaining control over a motorcycle, most of the time, at any rate..
<grin> Not to digress.. but anyone teaching a rookie should first teach
him the techniques to stop that motorcycle safely in ordinary riding cond-
itions.. Lock 'em up and hang on isn't a good idea.. Soon as you lock 'em
up.. you are no longer in control and that motorcycle is going down.. If you
do manage to keep it upright by the time it is stopped, chances are it will
be
so far off balance that you will drop it anyway.. We've all seen that happen
many times.. My old motorcycle outweighs me considerably, and when that
bike gets so far off balance, it is going down, unless I have control ..

My reasoning is that safe downshifting is a necessary part of riding control
and should be included in any regimen for teaching a rookie how to stop
a motorcycle, whether it is on a parking lot classroom or the street. There
will be time to try and teach that rookie how to make a panic stop while he
rides for the experience and instincts to control the bike. Without teaching
him the co-ordination with his engine, transmission and brakes, during a
stop.. all three are important .. that rookie is missing something.. A good
example of this might be the guy that only knows how to run those gear
from low to high range and every time he sits at a red light, he's stomping
that shift lever to find the right gear to go when the light changes..
Someone
has taught the guy how to get that sucker up to speed in control.. they
taught
him how to shut that thing down using the brakes, but they sure failed to
teach him how stop it safely and under control .. Some even teach the rookie
to downshift into neutral and slowly roll to their stop, flick the shift
lever to
first gear and proceed.. I prefer to be in first gear, holding my clutch
lever
to immediately react should it become necessary.. There was never any
indication in the exchanges, on my part, at least.. that downshifting was
any-
thing more than "enhancement" to achieve smooth and efficient stops.

In addition, as part of that .. as you've noted "suggestion".. I placed
empasis
on practice.

Whoo.. Hoooo.. Don.. LMAO.. that's putting it rather mildly, don't you
think.. but, very true.. Not quite "everybody" .. but, at least three of
those
reekyites, one of which claims to have all kinds of instructors
qualifications
and such.. hmmm.. If you understood what my "suggestion" was about, it
is amazing that some of them would call downshifting a motorcycle to en-
hance a smooth and efficient stop.. having "no value".. Later, of course
I think most of those three .. did admit that they use downshifting when
they
ride..

Nah.. they knew what I was "suggesting" .. <evil grin(borrowed)>
You did, too.. As the thread progressed and the heat elevated.. each
one admitted they used downshifting as they ride. Mostly, because
they were beginning to look foolish .. lol

Maybe .. assuming those "folks" you refer to, are really what they
represent themselves to be on usenet, was a mistake on my part..
The old saw about assume, makes an ass out of u and me, could
be appropriate in this case, I'm sure.. For example.. when I offered
the "innocent suggestion".. I assumed there was no need to go into
a lot of detail and that most of us who actually ride motorcycles woul
know immediately what I was suggesting, without going into a lot of
technical detail with co-efficients (not sure I understand all I know about
that) and such.. I'm not real sure the rookie who is trying to learn how
to master handling a bike knows much about it, either.. After all, he is
kinda nervous and eager to learn how to stay on top of that machine
more than it stays on top of him.. lol.. In hindsight, I find it a little
bit
unusual for someone who claims to have many certications for MSF
instructor, would not even mention downshifting while he's giving
advice to a rookie learning to stop a motorcycle on a parking lot...
Even on a newsgroup, that is enough to cause me to question the
qualifications that he boasts about.. I questioned those credentials
of his, several years ago and this little exchange (flame war) is a
good demonstration from him, that I was justified in those questions..

hmmm.. Where the **** are we ? <smile> For the most part, we spend
twelve months of the year riding our motorcycles.. We do participate in
a newsgroup in Texas .. that sometimes is boring and without a lot of
activity.. I'm not sure that I'd enjoy reading a lot of posts from people
who are asking what kind of helmet, gloves.. pants, boots and etc.etc.
to buy.. <chuckle> To each his own, but.. I usually don't give much of
a rat's ass wtf that dude buys.. I buy what feels good to me and fits..
Most of us.. wherever you think we are, do the same thing.. we damn
sure don't spread our insecurities on usenet asking someone to tell
us what we should be wearing and so forth.. <smile>

Wherever we are.. most of us on tx.motorcycles post ride reports
about what we experience when we ride to various places and what
we shared on those trips.. Especially during election cycles, we have
some heated discussions about politics, etc. Occasionally someone
wants some advice about some off the wall bullshit, not too often any-
more.. After everything is said and done.. "where we are" is about the
same place as "where" anyone is, who rides a motorcycle and enjoys
the fellowship with other riders..

I'm sure not about to agree with that comment, Don.. present company
excepted.. I think you guys have a handful of pretty damned good guys
on that newsgroup.. damned few, though.. Rec.motorcycles has got
more posers and wannabes than any motorcycle newsgroup on usenet..
That's my opinion, of course.. I certainly wouldn't recommend that any
rookie go to usenet to learn how to ride a motorcycle.. Some of the ad-
vice I've seen a few of the Reeky Wizards post is downright laughable
and comes straight from their googling expertise, not actual riding ex-
perience.. You've read and commented on many of those posts, also..

lol.. I sure can.. but seriously.. you've been one of the few regulars on
Reeky, that has managed to develop a relationship of mutual respect

Easy there, pard.. don't get back to all that "reloading" and shit.. LOL

ROTFLMAO.. Got'cha

Whoo Hoo, Don.. there ain't near enough technical mumbo jumbo
in there to get anyone's attention.. **** off, pard.. That bunch in
rec.motorcycles don't know wtf you are talking about.. <big Texas grin>

These old local boys in Texas got it, so you may not get much res-
ponse from them.. hell.. they thought everybody that's been riding
motorcycles for a while knows how to downshift, instinctively..

Regards, Don.. Glad to see that you are feeling ok and doing well..
Enjoyed responding to your good post.. Thanks..

Bill Walker
Irving, Tx. (since it is cross posted)

 

Damn.. you don't mean to tell me that mc crashes are happening all over, do
you
Wakko.. hmmm.. I bet if there was some way to check, they had several real
bad
crashes on the freeway system in the L.A. area.. just since you've been on
this

Buddy Helscel sends his regards.. talked to him today.. told him you were on
another run.. When I first mentioned your name, his immediate comeback was
"tell that big fucker to slow down".. LOL.. He also asked about "backpack"
and
I told him she is the same delightful little bundle of sweetness.. still
glued to
your old broad back, and still smiling like the cat that just ate a canary..

hmmm.. Couldn't reassure him that you'd "slowed down" much, though..

 

I sure am still learning to ride.
I am always learning.
I guess you have nothing more to learn, which is an reasonable explanation
for your stupidity.

--

Andrew
00 Daytona
00 Speed Triple
71 Kawi H1
05 Kiddo

 

See my Stopping Distances thread:

"For our final test, we modulated both the front and rear brakes
simultaneously. Not surprisingly, we brought the motorcycle to a stop
in the
shortest distance of the three tests: 146 feet. Both brakes together
undoubtedly provides the best braking performance."

 

"Stupidity"? I've never been so stupid as to say I wouldn't have my
back wheel on the ground in a quick stop situation....now that's
stupid!

Somehow the image of that Youtube video of the guy stopping on his
front wheel behind a group of bikes, only to run into them crashing
out several bikes.

You're silly.

 

I went through and read the article.
I don't think it applies to the kind of riding I do (mostly track) with
regard to stopping distances.
1st off a stock Bandit is completely different than most upgraded brake
systems with stainless steel lines, and HH pads, etc.
Another issue is you rarely stop on the track, you brake down to your corner
entry speed.
When I am braking from 150 down to 70 or so in a reasonably straight line,
the rear wheel is barely on the ground, so what good is using it?
I don't think I am going to get down to 70 quicker by using the rear brake.

Still an interesting topic.


--

Andrew
00 Daytona
00 Speed Triple
71 Kawi H1
05 Kiddo

 

I've never seen Rossi, Biaggi or Hayden doing "stoppies" going into
corners.

The more you say, the sillier you become....as if that's possible.

 

Then you're not watching closely enough.


--

Andrew
00 Daytona
00 Speed Triple
71 Kawi H1
05 Kiddo

 

And of course, you "learned" how to do all this in one of the MSF classes
that Tim Morrow was teaching, right ? ROTFLMAO..

 

WHAWAWAWA.. tsk. tsk.. Next thing you know, you'll be slinging snot about
someone talking ugly to you on usenet.. right ?

 

Yeah, no shit! Andrew is probably the dumbest bastard in the two
groups claiming to ride a motorcycle.

Damn, he's stupid! And the more he tries to convince someone on his
"technique", the dumber he gets with it.

 

I worked corners at an AMA tire test at Miller Motorsports Park, I saw
just about everyone from Zemke to Duhammel (sp?) Mladin and the Hayden
Bros all pulling stoppies on occassion. Usually it appeared that they
were going into the corner too hot.