Le Mans MotoGP

I've never known this place so quiet the day after a GP.

Anyway, Le Mans was the crap shoot we've come to expect from a 'flag
to flag' race where they changed bikes. I'll point up the following
things:

- Rossi is human (contrast Burgess's comments about some of the other
riders being 'little robots') - human enough to throw it away, and
despite not giving up, didn't get a point.
- Lorenzo really is pretty good. Didn't put a foot wrong
- Pedrosa appears to be a racer! The way he hunted down Dovi and
overtook him on the last lap was one of the few highpoints of an
otherwise fairly dull race
- Melandri is also a racer. A great result for him and his team. And
even tho they know they wouldn't have got on the podium in the dry,
underneath it they appear to be faster than everyone who isn't on a
works Yamaha, Honda or Ducati.

 

Big mistake pulling in so early, and he was running 2nd and not losing
much ground to Lorenzo at the time. He went in after 5 laps, and
Lorenzo didn't go in until after 12 and was getting faster until then,
although Melandri bested his time on slicks the last couple laps - the
Bridgestone rains proved to be great in damp conditions.

And the cheats sent him out again on a rain front and slick rear, and
then slicks at both ends. But no penalty, apparently, and again
because the rules aren't entirely clear - nice to have your own
rulebook...

Outstanding really, although it's hard to say if he just guessed right
on setup, on both bikes. But he was easily the fastest on rain tires
on a drying track, and again on slicks on a damp track.

That was the only segment of the race when Lorenzo wasn't quickest,
but he didn't have to be, the race already won. And Dani faded in the
wet on rains, changed too early, and faded more on slicks - compare
Melandri's laps after the switch to Pedrosa's. I know the guy's
hurting, but his wet performance still seems to be an issue.

Where Melandri really stood out was on slicks in wet conditions. Once
again he's confirmed that he's one of the very best on a wet track.
Too bad he changed so early, might have had a shot if he'd waited
another 4-5 laps, but I guess he had to try something, wasn't going to
beat Lorenzo on the same strategy that day.

Otherwise, Edwards was very fast on slicks from the middle of the race
on, but screwed the pooch on rains. Hayden had his best stretch after
breaking through the second pack and just before switching to slicks,
running at the same pace as Vermeulen and just off of Stoner, but then
slicks on a drier track did it to him again. But it's one of Ducati's
worst tracks and definitely his worst, and he was only about a second
off Stoner's times. Stoner kinda mailed this one in, for him slow on
rains, slow on slicks in the wet, slow on slicks in the dry, 30
seconds back in the end. Also kind of middling results for Vermeulen,
Capirossi, Toseland.

 

Well, as you say, it seems the rules *aren't* clear - they don't say
whether both tyres have to be different. And if they don't say, then
it's not against the rules. That would be my interpretation, anyway,
and in Burgess shoes, with little to lose, I'd have done the same.

 

Just to be truly bizarre, the French rules say Pneus (plural), the
English rules say Tyre[1] (singular). Allegedly Burgess-Rossi said "we
don't speak French".

[1]And not Tire (American)

 

Because the FIM are based in French Switzerland and French has been the
international language of diplomacy (which explains a lot).

Which amounts to "yes, but, it's always been like this"

 

The usual moans about bike setup, traction control settings and so on.
Seems like the machine he started on was all wrong while the machine he
changed to was more like the one he'd gone fast on in practice. That'll
be the experienced Guy Coulon then and not Colin.

He put a hard pass on Toseland later pushing him out to the paint on the
Dunlop curve. Nice.

Was it a mistake by Rossi to come in early, since it worked for Marco?
Since Rossi fell but Marco didn't with slicks on a damp track, does that
make Marco better than Rossi on that day or just less unlucky? It was
actually kind of fun to see Rossi screw up in the biggest possible way,
including forgetting to turn on the pit lane limiter and getting a ride
through penalty to go with all the stops. It almost seems like Rossi has
one race each year where it all goes horribly wrong. So perhaps he's had
the bad race and will spend the rest of the year 1st or 2nd.

3 riders within one point and the next 9 behind. That'll do as we move
into the main phase of "the ground war" (c. W. Rainey)

 

Only if you have reason to believe that the French and English (or
Italian?) versions are different. Until someone reads the regs in
both languages and compares it's reasonable to assume that whatever
version you're reading is accurate and valid.

That's a leap. They followed the regs as they read them without any
reason to believe they were reading an inaccurate version of them.

Of course, I'm assuming that the English version is an official
publication from the FIM and not some roque translation by an
unofficial third party. I could be wrong on that.

 

The usual wonderful logic there. When Spies has finished and in practice
and qualifying the Yamaha has had the measure of the Ducati. But because
Haga has had better luck (so far) and Spies isn't leading the
championship it must be that the machine is dominant.

 

And the usual Euro-view on things there. Spies has had very bad luck,
but that's hardly the entire issue. However you play it, Ducati is
dominating this championship, as they have so many others. By my
count, related to the amend-twins-rules-on-the-fly provision, better
known as the 2007 FIM European Protection Act, Ducati's top two
finishers now have totalled 445 points, compared to Honda's at 275 and
Yamaha's at 264. Specifically related to the rule, Ducati's 445 even
exceeds all six four-cylinder machines' total of 419. And of course
Haga leads the championship by 85 points, now over his Ducati
teammate, and the two of them have won 7 of the 12 races.

But that 26-point edge in the totals doesn't activate the weight
addition provision, because that requires a difference of over 5
points per round, right? And so that would take 31 points, which means
Ducati is off the hook for another three rounds. Now, had Spies won
the those races at Kayalami and Monza, his two machine failures while
leading, he's still be trailing Haga by 34 points. So let's say Spies
also won at Assen where he crashed while leading, and 3rd at Valencia,
where he was the lap before he crashed there. Then he'd have the
championship lead by 12 points over Haga, and there would be a 56-
point swing in the twins/fours points (I hope my math is right!),
which would put the fours up by 30 points, only a single point short
of the level which would allow Ducati to drop weight starting at
Miller.

So basically the FIM rule says the bookends on parity are Ducati
leading the championship by nearly a hundred points, having the
majorty of the wins and the top two riders in points, and Ducati
trailing in the championship by about ten points, also having the
rider 3rd in points, and having won a third of the races. More than
the former and they have to put on weight, less than the latter and
they get to take off weight. Even though five of the six fours
manufacturers haven't won a race or have anyone in the top three in
points.

Of course you just view it from the perspective that an American on a
Japanese bike winning some races must mean he's got the best bike...

 

Okay, say the English version is the one that counts. When you read
that rule do you think it's clear that you only need to change the
type of one tire when switching machines? I don't think it's clear at
all, and the common understanding has been that you have to change
both. The only out I can see at all is if American English is
materially different than British English in this regard. But I don't
see that as an aspect of this matter anywhere.

Again, that is not the common interpretation of the rule, not can I
see that as the even remotely obvious meaning from reading the rule.
And regarding Champ's comment, I cannot believe that team saw Rossi
crash on slicks, did the bike switch back to rains, decided it would
be better to run at least one slick, grabbed the rulebook and gave it
a read and decided that was okay, fixed the crashed bike, removed a
slick and replaced it with a rain and had it ready for his return a
couple laps later. It seems much more likely that they had read the
rulebook in gory detail, as every team should, saw the vagueness in
that rule, and put that in the back of their minds if there was ever a
circumstance where they could exploit that. That would only work if
they knew they had a very good chance of surviving a ruling or an
adverse ruling and appeal, and the one guy in that paddock who may be
bulletproof in that regard is Rossi. What they really should have done
is asked for a clarification, but that would have been giving away
their unfair advantage - the Rossi Rules...

What I posted was a copy-and-paste from the rulebook on the FIM
website, so I think we're fairly safe there.

 

Or you can view it that the two best riders in the paddock on the two
best bikes in the paddock are very equal when chance doesn't get in the
way. And just behind them there are 3 other marques who are only
fractions off the pace. So whatever you think of the rules, they are
actually working. Yes it is artificial, and it may even be unfair. But
the reason Haga has a big points lead isn't because Ducati have an
unfair advantage. It's because Yamaha Italia are screwing up and Spies
is having more than his fair share of bad luck.

 

How many seasons from the past (especially the 'classic' era from the
80s) featured five riders who could win or get on the podium. I
recall the seasons from the late 80s pretty well, and even then a race
with 4 contenders (Gardner, Lawson, Sarron and Schwantz, 1988, Paul
Ricard) was considered exceptional.

You carefully say 'Ducati' rather than 'Stoner' cos otherwise it
doesn't fit your 'Euromed' stereotype, despite the fact that only an
Australian can make the Ducati work. So, tell me - how European is
Stoner?

 

I wouldn't argue much against your notion that the variable weight
rule works in Ducati's favor, it certainly does. But are the bikes
really that dominant? To me, Monza is a good place to compare
outright power between the machines. The Ducati's didn't have
anything on the Yamaha. There wasn't too many draft passes between
the top three. It's also believed that the Suzuki should have had the
speed to be right there with them, and Max N. might have been if not
for the bad luck.

However, one thing that does strike me while watching every race this
year... Spies has to ride the crap out of the Yamaha to stay on equal
terms with the Ducati while Haga looks like he's cruising around.
It's almost identical to the last two years where Haga was clearly
riding the crap out of the Yamaha to keep up with Bayliss. In this
regard the Ducati does seem to have a distinct advantage. I'm just
not clear on what the advantage is, though. Not power it would seem.
Not handling supposedly. Not tire management. Actually, handling on
the Yamaha might be more of a problem than they're letting on. Ben
seems to be hitting a lot of sloppy apex's this year. He's frequently
a foot or two wider than he ought to be and not hitting the same marks
lap after lap. He also appears to be having trouble driving out of
certain types of corners.

So, the factory Ducati's seem to have an advantage but it's not a huge
one, or they simply have the best team, the best factory support, and
one of the best riders at all times. I'd say it's a little from
column A and a little from column B.

 

He's a Brit isn't he? Since his first break was in the Brit 125GP
championship. Except we hate him for not telling the Donington crowd to
FOAD and going off and whining instead. I'm so confused. Do we support
"Tiny Tears" or not?

 

Bloody whinging Pom!

--
Ivan Reid, School of Engineering & Design, _____________ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Ivan.Reid@[brunel.ac.uk|cern.ch] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
GSX600F, RG250WD "You Porsche. Me pass!" DoD #484 JKLO#003, 005
WP7# 3000 LC Unit #2368 (tinlc) UKMC#00009 BOTAFOT#16 UKRMMA#7 (Hon)
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".

 

Yeah, like he got away with speeding in pit lane.

Oh, wait...

 

Champ brags:

By the same argument, I'm faster than Spencer. And I actually
*did* beat Schwantz once. Sorta. My endurance team beat his
anyway.

I like the way this is going. I beat Polen. I beat Wes Cooley.
I beat Tom Kipp. Dang! I'm much faster then now than I was then.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.

 

Isn't that true for everyone? The older I get, the faster I was.

 

I happen to think it is a far more kind asssessment of Spies' skills
to say he is afflicted by bad luck, rather than he is a hothead who's
only choice is to crash an inferior bike rather than come in second or
third at a distance.

....pablo