Jerez Spoiler

The officials also chose to disregard Sete's "he's a wanker" hand
gestures but that's not important right now. "Bringing the sport into
disrepute"??

The fact is Honda did not protest. The officials did hold an inquiry and
officially announced a "racing incident". I guess we'll have to wait and
see if everyone gets their knuckles rapped and are told to calm down
like they tried with the 125GP lunatics last year.

Well we can agree to differ then. I don't want to see anybody hurt. But
I saw 2 laps in which two riders were riding right on the ragged edge
and touched two or three times. It was all going to be decided on the
last corner. And sure enough it was. I find it really hard to criticise
Rossi or Gibernau for anything under those circumstances. It looked to
me like the sort of thing that happens all the time in 125GP. How many
times have we seen people go into the final chicane at Assen way too hot
in the leading bunch on the last lap? Or the Esses and Melbourne loop at
Donington? Given the previous three corners what would you rather Rossi
had done?

Half a dozen times. And being a Brit I use PAL not "Never Twice The Same
Colour". I guess I'll go and look again. I understand why people are
saying what they are. But I didn't see Rossi putting a foot down, I saw
him moving his foot from gear to toe. And I didn't see Rossi losing the
front and using bouncing off Sete to stay upright. I saw two people
fighting for the last slow corner. They were both braking late and would
have run wide. But Sete was on the outside and left the door open. And
let's not forget that neither rider actually fell off. It's not like
Capirossi and Harada ending up in the hay fields.

Like I said, not only is he extraordinarily talented but he's also hard
as nails and shows no fear. So what does Gibernau have to do to beat
him? ISTM it's going to take a full race of lap record pace and a 2
second gap going into the last lap. Because Sete should have full
warning now that if Rossi is on his tail, he'll try something and
probably get away with it. And it'll come anywhere. Who else could cut
inside someone at Luci Heights (sp?). There's very, very few riders who
can cut inside on the back corners at Assen.

And whether it's right or wrong, you've got to admit it makes for great
TV. I've had three people talk to me in the last couple of days who
never normally watch MotoGP. They all talked about leaping up and down
and shouting at the TV.

 

Well, there's more to it than that. I am not one to subscribe to the view
that victory vindicates anything and everything, and one can make a mistake
and still win. Especially if a riding mistake -like entering a turn too hot-
results in one's opponent being bumped off the track. It may indeed be a
"racing incident", but still a riding mistake.

....pablo

 

Have a look at this then:
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2005mgp/jerez/2/3_ms8.htm

Bummers
That looks like a "foot down" to me!

Julian Bond wrote:
But I didn't see Rossi putting a foot down, I saw

 

What's more telling to me is the lean angle (I don't think you can hope to
hold up the bike cross style with the tip of your boot, as in the pic, I
thought I'd seen more blatant foot-on-tarmac somewhere, but have not seen it
again) - Rossi on the inside ought to be leaned in all the way, but he's
not. That leaves 2 interpretations: (1) Gibernau cutting into Rossi. But the
fact they ended up way outside, and Gibernau off the track, indicates it's
number (2): Rossi came in too hot and is still on the brakes and about to
run wide. Gibernau had him beat, having the better line for the turn and
having also braked the way your're supposd to. Only the collision saved
Rossi's win. And only if it was due to a legitimate riding mistake is that
acceptable. No matter what the circumstances, bumping people off the track
is not *ever* an acceptable move in motorcycle racing if it's a
pre-calculated move.

....pablo

 

Chandler with no brakes, entering the corkscrew. Bad example, Chandler
was an innocent bystander in that accident and could no more avoid it
than Yanagawa.

I'm trying to remember a specific instance like this. Melbourne loop
Donington 125GP two year's ago? Jacques vs Biaggi 1999? Any number of
instances of Gobert in WSB. Fogarty and several others over several
years including Chili and Kocinski, Assen chicane. Numerous 125 and 250
GPs Assen chicane. Bayliss and Edwards rubbing shoulders at Monza.

 

I was there and saw *the* move. It was much cleaner than Rossi's pass on
Sunday. No comparison.

 

It's unacceptable, period. This one race has demoted Rossi in my esteem,
not just the last corner move, but his smugness on the podium and "that's
racing" attitude in the post-race interviews.

Or is sportsmanship just another dead relic of the British Empire?

- kudzu

 

I agree with you there, he did a mistake. Although I also think that given
the opening given to him it was almost a pre-decided mistake. You simply
_don't_ do you ordinary race line into the last turn when you the faster
rider is at your tail. Rossi _had_ to try for that opening given to him. He
"failed" but by luck won anyway.



/MBE

 

So beeing a spoiled kid as so many here accused him for being is better than
being a hard nail. To me he just proves what a champion he is, and it
explain why he is a winner: The will to win.

Regarding his "smugness", try to stand in front of thousends of beople
booing at you and will see what face you put up. Most others would give them
the finger.

What does that pre historic thing got to do with an italian and and a
spanish in spain?

/MBE

 

The will to win at any cost is just a disease of modern society,
it has nothing to do with sport. There are a number of world
champions on the grid in MotoGP, and they're all racers, not just
riders.

Mick Doohan after his 92 accident defines "will to win" for me.
YMMV. That stunt Rossi pulled is worthy of a rookie club racer.

You've convinced me that it would be pointless to explain.

 

Could well be. It looks like Kyonari may run away with it. Strange
because Thruxton usually produces really close racing.

I guess McWilliams and Paul Bird are discovering you can't build a
competitive Blade in 2 weeks no matter how much money you've got.

 

I agree with you about Mick Doohan, but in today's sound bite and trash talk
culture punting a guy off the track in a sloppy move qualifies as brilliant
racecraft and exemplifies a burning "will to win".

 

So if you end up winning, there is no way you could have made
a mistake? Your logic is severely flawed.

 

Excellent way to put it, probably more concise, in fewer words, and more to
the point than I put it. I subscribe to that view whole-heartedly.

....pablo

 

Amen. I can not even remotely relate to that drive and desire. If it was me,
I'd be in bed rethinking my career goals twelve times over....

I can also relate to the feeling of taking a lot of credit by sheer
accident, by the way... Read the Flashman (George MacDonald Frasier)
books... fantastic and brilliant example for Lady Luck sometimes choosing to
kiss whimsically, ficticious but oh so conceivable. Just saying that because
they finally came out with a new one...

I ought to note I think that all top racers got there because they've had
luck with them to a certain degree thus far. I am *not* accusing Rossi of
being luckier than others. I am just talking last week's race, and my
interpretation of the last turn.

....pablo

 

If he can't hear Rossi well in advance he has a serious hearing problem.
These guys shoud have no problem knowing where their single oponent are when
they've been that close the whole race.
There is no problem hearing a bike closing in on you. Specially not the GP
bikes.

If so, why was it back on the peg before the contact?


/MBE

 

I never said it was brilliant, actually I think he did a mistake, but was
lucky. May statment about the will to win would have been just as valid if
Sete had done a smarter move and won, or if Rossi crashed in his attempt.
His effort is what proves his will not the outcome of that particular race.

Never the less his to major oponents the last years both have a psycological
problem with Rossi and with their own ability to generate points to
challenge him.

/MBE

 

Then you might agree that Sete should have seen it comming? I've seen many
national races like that at my home track and at least four times I've seen
the leader outsmart number two in the last turn, a very tight 90 deg
lefthander. Usually they do it by leaving the door partly open and let the
other pass as he brake a little deeper then power past the looser as _he_
struggle to get power down as he balance at the edge of the curb.

 

To change the subject some. There was some discussion during the breaks
between races about the future of 125GP and 250GP. Dorna is in something
of a dilemma over this. Clearly 2 strokes have little place any more.
And it would be a shame if we lost 2 out of the 3 pure racing formulae
left. But they're stuck.
- There's a contract in place that says that WSB have exclusive rights
to production based racing and GPs to prototypes
- There's only one national 250 championship left
- A wholesale change to 4 stroke prototypes will increase costs
dramatically
- There are several national feeder championships for 125 and some
wealthy vested interests in keeping it in place.
- They have to fill the program some how. A single 40 minute premier
race doesn't fill the day.

So what to do?

ps. And it still pisses me off that Laguna won't be taking the 125 and
250GPs. And that the support races probably won't get shown on world TV.
But that's another story.

 

Rossi did crash in the morning warmup and was forced to ride his backup
bike, so he did have a little adversity. Didn't matter too much in the end,
though, since his backup worked just as well as a battering ram as the #1
bike would have.-)