Jerez Spoiler

Has this forum changed to discussing NASCAR? I expect to
hear someone post "rubbin' is racin' next.

 

He "turned in to him' because it was a left hand turn. He had to turn
left. The only fault of Sete was he was taking the "ideal" line instead
of the "blocking" line. The ideal line is enter wide and hit the apex.
That is why it looks like he turned in to him. Rossi's line was enter
hot and use Sete as a burm. If you watch the replay from the
helicopter camera, even after bumping in to Sete, Rossi has
to run out to within a couple of feet of the outside of the track.
So he is at the outside of the track where he should have been at the
apex. Simply out of control. Rossi made a mistake. Just like he
had at least 3 other times in the other corner (the one where Sete
got back under him). It just so happens that this time there
was someone on the outside of him. Rossi made a mistake, and
Sete paid for it.

 

What you are saying is just so wrong. How about Aaron Yates
at the WSB Lagun start a few years ago? He took the
spot on the race track because it was open, then when everyone
came down to the apex he had nowhere to go and t-boned
bostrom. Pretty much everyone agreed that it was his fault.
What about what Cap pulled on Harada in the final round of the 250
championship in 1998? Pretty much everyone agreed that
was a dirty move. In no form of racing (from NASCAR, to F1
to MotoGP) is taking any track space that is available acceptable.

 

Maybe he won't leave a hole, he will probably just crash instead.

 

Hardly. Capirossi went in too hot from miles back and basically punted
Harada off the track. Harada never knew what hit him. Today Rossi was
alongside Sete on his inside.

Fascinates me that passes like that are acceptable in 125, 600WSS, MX,
Mile Dirt-track, WSB (Vermeulen and Toseland, Toseland and Laconi and
that was just last year), National championships and probably others but
not in MotoGP on the last corner of a hotly contested race. The block
pass on a slow corner is all part of the game isn't it?

 

Hayden and Rossi go side by side into the last turn on the last lap for
the win. And both end up in the armco on the end of the pits?

Sete must know now that to win the championship he needs a couple of
seconds on Rossi going into the last lap of the majority of races. Which
means we'll see qualifying pace from the two of them for the whole of
each race. Now I don't believe there's anyone else out there that can
live with that. Which means the races may appear boring unless you enjoy
watching two riders right on the edge for 40 minutes.

One thought about this is Rossi's background coming up through hard
racing in the 125 and 250. Not only is he amazingly skilled but now he's
got the reputation of being a hard bastard as well. Reminds me of Senna.

One other factor in yesterday's races that nobody's really mentioned.
They touched two or three times on that last lap before the final
corner. Gibernau was giving as good as he got. And he still ended up in
the wrong place on the track at the wrong time.

 

Quite. Actually he was out of control with the back wheel in the air and
fishtailing wildly well before the corner.

Then there was Capirossi on Harada. That really was a Hail Mary move,
that started when he was 2 or 3 bike lengths behind. Somebody mentioned
Yates. Well that wasn't the last corner of the race for the win. And it
wasn't a slow corner either. Or a block pass on a key competitor. It was
a 1st lap mistake pure and simple.

 

That was more than a block pass. He was way too hot, and as Sean Alexander
so aptly pointed out over on the MO forum it is always the reponsibility of
the overtaking rider to avoid contact. Schwantz's pass of Rainey in the
1991 Hockenheim GP is a textbook late braking block pass. It can be done
without ramming. It was a shitty "pass" and Rossi knew it.

http://www.bikechatforums.com/download.php?id=9949&sid=1b07c60d9e46b26528127bb1fe72231f

 

This link:
http://s6.invisionfree.com/gpstore/index.php?showtopic=759

Shows overhead video, pictures, and a diagram of what happened.
Regardless of who bumped who, who
had the correct line, etc, Rossi gets to the inside of pushes him off
of the track. Is it legal to pull up beside
of someone on the track, then just start moving over until the other
guy is off of the track? A few years
ago Biaggi sticks his elbow out and all of the Rossi fans were
complaining about it to no end.

I am no fan of Sete and I have never really pulled for him. I am an on
again off again fan of Rossi (like I was with
Doohan). I enjoy watching him ride because he is the best, but I wish
someone could hang with him.

 

Also, if you look at the video here:

http://s6.invisionfree.com/gpstore/index.php?showtopic=759

Then you see that Sete is on the very inside edge of the racing line
(you can see where the rubber is on the track, he is actually
inside of where the rubber is, so he didn't leave the door open after
all). Rossi is way over in the light gray tarmac where no man
(except the ones that are crashing) has ridden before.

 

Exactly!

You are absolutely right. If Rossi had taken this line in this
particular turn during qualifying, he would have qualified behind Biaggi

The line was nonsense, Sete was starting a clean corner, in a clean
line, and Rossi smashes into him, causing Sete in the gravel. Without
Sete, Rossi would be in the gravel due to his absurd velocity towards
the gravel.

Bram (a Rossi-fan who thinks disqualification of Rossi is in order here)

 

Difference is that Rossi didn't T-bone Sete. They had different lines and
bumped into each other. Surly, Rossi when committed had no other line to
choose at maximum brakes/lean angle. Right or wrong, Sete was still the one
to decide the outcome, either by expecting Rossi to try and choose his line
based on that fact or by changing his line when Rossi arrived. He did
neither and lost. To me this still looks very amateurish by Sete. We have
club racers doing better decisions in the last corner, often in the most
elegant way: let the challenger go in to hot on the inside and power past
the bastard when he's out on the outside curb at apex.

It is as long as you don't crash into others. Rossi didn't crash they bumped
and that was still Setes option to avoid.

/MBE

 

That's assumin to much a contact like that will usually destabilize the bike
and cause a far wider turn than an undisurbed but hot turn in would give. I
know how unsetteling a contact can be, and have a bumpy collar bone to prove
it On the other hand Setes manouver seemed more like a frozen reaction
of shock rather than a uncontrolable bike. Given his speed and line he
should have been able to recover on the track as well.

/MBE

 

go watch nascar redneck....

 

This is one the reasons i'm an all-time Schwantz fan... 34 suzuki ruled.

 

I have only been an amateur racer, and only for 2 years, but I can
tell you that it is easy to get inside of someone in a turn. If you
can hang with someone, you can ALWAYS get inside of them
by just taking the tighter line and laying off of the brakes.
However, when you meet at the
apex, the guy on the inside taking the tighter line is going
to hit the guy taking the regular line. Anyone can just lay
off the brakes and get in to the corner inside of another
rider if you are not worried about making the corner. This
is what Rossi did. Rossi had overshot more turns than
any of the leaders during that race. Just watch the video
from above. Rossi can not make that turn on his
aproach angle. This is why he runs to the edge of
the track. There is no rubber on the track where he is. If
this was Cap or Hopper I don't think anyone would have any
problem blaming them. I can't believe the people that can't
admit when their rider makes a mistake.

 

Yeah he was along side with his foot on the ground and pointed in a
direciton
that would take him to the edge of the track. What a great method to pass.
IF you can pull up beside of someone on the straight just swerve over and
push them off of the track and you have the position. Same damn thing, only
happened in a curve. Just as it shows here:

http://s6.invisionfree.com/gpstore/index.php?showtopic=759

 

As I have mentioned before, I think the only excuse for Rossi is possible
rider mistake. If it wasn't a mistake, it should be penalized, but then
again we'll never know. What's sure is that he overcooked it, and from there
had no control over where Gibernau was or any means to avoid him. Gibernau
was the one that had control, and thus chose to ride wide to avoid a harder
collision. In any case, it was a riding mistake at best. A brilliant and
well-thought out pass it wasn't. My concern is that things escalate further
from here.

....pablo

 

How was it a mistake? He won.

 

He would not have, if the officials had been objective.
Rossi's superstar status makes them hesitant.

Julian, I regard you as a very good writer on this
usenet group, knowledgable and insightful. But in this
case, I think you are wrong.

How many times did you examine the footage? Did you
examine the heli footage? (Maybe try a PAL or HD TV
instead of NTSC

Rossi is a Superstar, but that does not make him right.

bram