[QUOTE="BGN"] I've just come back after a brief bimble in the car to drop something off. I live in snow skid city. During a weak moment I span the car and planted it in a cerb stone at 0.5mph with the ABS on full jitter mode.[/QUOTE] That'll be because ABS is mostly a PITA in the snow, for small values of 'worse'. <parks up the one car in the household with ABS, and gets one of the primative, non ABS equipped ones out>