Is there a flat rate manual for Japanese motorcycle repairs?

How many manhours of labor should it take to repair various items on
Japanese motorcycles?

I have several people who have asked me to rebuild carbs on their
bikes. I need to have an idea of how long this will take.

I have found an online source for Harleys, I do believe there's one
for the Japanese bikes.

Please help me if you can, thanks in advance.

Biker Dude

 

I'd be really surprised if anything like that exists. I mean,
manufacturers have their own rates and times, which they allow for
warranty repairs and suchlike, but there are often dodges that
mechanics evolve themselves in order to shorten the time (valve-shim-
under-bucket changes and starter clutch replacement on some models
spring to mind).

As for rebuilding carbs on bikes; what carbs? What bikes? Slide carbs?
CV carbs? Vees, inline fours, or what?

The variables are immense.

In addition, you can be sure it will take longer on older bikes than
it does on newer ones, because fasteners will be corroded and stuck,
or damaged where some donkey has had a go at it first (this holds good
for *all* work), and once you get into the carbs a pound to a penny
you'll find that the bike hasn't been used for a decade and all the
fuel has turned to varnsh, meaning it'll have to be ultrasonically
cleaned as well.

So how long will it take? "As long as it takes".

 

Way back when I was a Honda parts man, the FRT was on the parts microfiche
pages with the parts. It was what they paid for warranty work, about half
what it actually took. We figured they let a little japanese guy do twenty
practice runs with every power tool he could think of, fed him some uppers,
then timed him.
I used to double it for repair estimates and usually it was pretty close
then.
As for you doing "carb rebuilds" on other people's bikes with the amount of
knowledge/experience evident from your many posts; NOT
recommended...........
AND any FRT assumes a trained tech with proper tools, so , totally
irrelevant.

 

That's what I thought.

Will do.

May little corner of the world is filled with UJM (Universal Japanese
Motorcycles) with clogged carbs. The sellers of such bikes are asking
$600 - $800 and they mention that "it just needs a carb cleaning".

If it is an inline four then carb kits are about $25 each on fleabay
and the time to remove them from the bike, dissassemble, clean,
reassemble, reinstall, adjust, tune, etc must be about 4 hours or
more.

Shop rates around here are about $75 per hour, times four is $300 plus
$100 for parts so a $400 repair bill sounds about right. I could then
approach the seller of the $600 bike and explain that it needs $400
worth of work and I should be able to do that without offending him.

If there is a stripped or corroded screw and/or there is also a need
for a petcock overhaul then I could calculate repair costs at about
$600. That's a big discount for a $600 bike and I would be confident
in bidding it.

What do you think?

"Ta ta for now" - Tigger - AA Milne

Biker Dude

 

Well you should be surprised then. They actually do exist.
Almost all manufacturers in this context use them for their
authorized repair shops. I have seen them for Honda and
Yamaha, however they are all electronic these days.

The flat rate only is a guideline, and typically is longer
than an experienced mechanic will take, BUT he gets paid by
the book, not how long it takes. Again, for authorized
repair centers.

I have know idea how to get a copy.

 

Yes, I know that. I said that. What I meant was I really doubt an
online version, covering all Japanese bikes, exists.

Yes, again, that's what I said.

I have seen them for Honda and

Didn't know that, mind.

Yes, I know. And in some cases, mechanics develop shortcuts.

Nor I :-(

 

I think you're living in a dream world. Here's why:

Like I thought, you're talking about old Jap bikes. I spend half my
life messing around with these things, in what I laughingly call
"work".

A pound to a penny that these bikes will, like I said up there
somewhere, have their own fair share of stripped and corroded
fasteners. Have you ever tried getting a carb bank off an old 1970s/
80s Jap four? Worse still, ever tried putting the carb bank back on?
With old hardened carb stubs, inlet rubbers to the airbox which are
perished and suddenly split, etc etc? And you think you can get a set
of carbs off, completely stripped, cleaned properly, and replaced in
just four hours? If you're very, very lucky, maybe. I'd double that
time. If the carbs are really gunged up and need ultrasonic cleaning,
you'll need to factor that in as well.

You're talking about maybe having to spend half an hour with degreaser
and a jetwash before you can even see the fasteners you want to undo,
sometimes, and then when you have exposed them, they'll all have
damaged heads.

And as CS wisely says, the people you're working for will be back.
Because even if you do manage to restore their carbs to pristine
health, their old clunkers still won't work (air filter, plugs,
battery, whatever) and it'll all be your fault because "it was all OK
before".

 

Here's an example of a $600 bike that needs about $600 worth of carb
work:

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/mcy/1481114207.html

I think I could offer to fix it for $600. That would certainly
discourage him.

What do you think?

Biker Dude

 

Is that all it needs? is the question of the innocents....

FWIW I have cleaned, adjusted, synchronised and fettled carbs on many bikes.
Bikes that have been regularly used are no real problem. The problem comes
when they have been stood and the fuel has turned to varnish.

Still not so bad providing they haven't been fixed. Thats fixed as in
neutering a cat.

First, the rubbers to the head and airbox -will- be a total twat. Second, on
a real SOB some ****-knuckle will have had a go and as Mark put, will have
bodged, blodged and bludgeoned them.

So now, with skinned knuckles and at least one damaged airbox or head rubber
to contend with, you have the carbs on the bench.

You remove the carb tops and....Oh bollocks. One of the diaphragms splits
where a previous monkey glued it in place.

Next, you invert the carbs to get at the float bowl screws. At least one per
carb will have mated intimately with the carb body, and the aforementioned
pumpernaught will have destroyed the head on one other per carb.

Finally, you get inside it. What faces you now is verdigris, blocked jets
and gloop.

You get the buggers clean. You replace any and all worn parts. You replace
the rubbers and diaphragm at greater expense than you bargained for. Get it
all bolted back on and discover the other reasons the bike was stood long
enough for the carbs to varnish in the first place.

If you are doing for yourself, because that particular model holds
affectionate memories, then go for it. Otherwise, +1 for TOG, CS and Mark.

 

Christ, that made me laugh. )

 

I think that one reason why it's got a new battery is because the old
one died because the charging system fritzed (as they were wont to do
on Suzukis of that era) and that is why (as Badger amusingly put it)
it was pushed into a shed 12 years ago.

 

Here's my other bike:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...454038763&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MESELX:IT

This one begs the question "When do you fix it and when do you junk
it?" And if you junk it do you sell it to a private party, a
junkyard, or piece by piece on ebay?

I am also tempted to title the beast and then sell the portion of the
frame with the serial number along with the clear title to someone who
wants to legally get his own homebrew bike up and running.

All in all, I see many possiblities to traffic in shite old bikes and
enjoy the ride. But it's about marketing and marketing is about
taking your existing inventory and assets and then approaching the
marketplace in the most adventageous manner.

Off to Craigslist!!!

Biker Dude

 

Awww badger, what did you go and ruin it for him for! I think you have very
accurately predicted the future for him! (Been there, done that, bought the
tshirt)

 

No, actually marketing is just about lying. Good luck with your newly
discovered fast-track to riches. Don't forget to write us again when you
make it big! <G>

But it's about marketing and marketing is about

 

When it's worth fixing.

When it isn't

Quite frequently, for old classics.

 

Then tell me please, Fount of All Knowledge, is an '83 Kawasaki KZ550M
with shaft drive an old classic?

TIA,

Biker Dude

 

Absolutely not. Sorry. It's an old example of what was a pretty shit
bike (apart from the engine) to begin with.

 

'Tis just the way of SOBs.

I'm currently looking at swapping an X7 for an XJ650. I have a real soft
spot for XJ650s that cannot be rationally explained. The bike I'm
considering has covered approx. 280,000 miles. It runs perfectly, burns no
oil and there is -NO- bodging on it. It has been used pretty much every
day. Subtle things like when the carbs were first rebuilt, the owner junked
the cheese head screws for stainless Allen heads. The exhaust pipe is
stainless, the rear fork is gusseted around the front bracing. It has
always been fitted with either Hi-Flo or Emgo filters. 1500 mile oil
changes, 3000 mile oil filter changes but it is really down to regular use.

I'd far rather have that than one that has done 60,000 miles and spent half
its life stood in a shed. I've spent far too much time trying to sort out
bodges and the effects of not riding to be bothered.

You've been there, I've been there. A well maintained SOB, maintained by
someone who has been hit with a clue bat is far better than a low mileage,
shiny but ultimately botched bike.

Guess who has been coerced in to sorting out the carbs on a B12 that has
been stood for two years. Oh I'm looking forward to that. At least the
owner hasn't tried to sort it already, and he is a top bloke who makes a
cracking cup of tea.

It'll take a day to do the job properly. At workshop labour rates it becomes
a non viable proposition for a £1000 bike. The bike is a MK1 B12 with
20,000 miles(ish) and yup, the slow running circuits are choked.

 

A friend had one, long ago, and it was just about bomb-proof. Made a
lovely whistling noise, too.

Me, I always preferred the XS650 twin, again, for reasons that cannot
be rationally explained.