Is the "Starter Solenoid" the same as a "Starter Relay"?

Hey All,
Been a while since I've been on here. I'm troubleshooting a no-start
situation, and I was wondering if the Starter Solenoid and the Starter
Relay are the same thing?

For some background, I can hear a relay "click" when I press the
button, which after studying the electric diagram I think is the
starter relay. That means kill switches ok, battery freshly charged,
so somewhere between the starter relay and the starter itself I'm
having trouble (bad connection?). Could also be the starter itself,
but this problem happens intermittently (sometimes it starts right up,
other times it just clicks).

Thanks,
James

 

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If the battery is charge properly, check the ground of the battery
back to the engine. (If it goes to the frame, check that, and how well
the engine is grounded to the frame.)

Check both battery connections at the battery.


Wudsracer/Jim Cook
Smackover Racing
'06 Gas Gas DE300
'82 Husqvarna XC250
Team LAGNAF

 

Yes.

 

No.

On my boxer, the starter relay disconnects the lights
and activates the starter solenoid. The relay is a little
1" cube that plugs in under the tank and the solenoid
is a large cylindrical barnacle on the side of the starter motor.

Some bikes may not have a solenoid. Solenoid and
relay are two different critters.

Relay:

NC (normally closed) lights on
NO (normally open) solenoid activate

 

Depends on the bike. A solinoid is just a heavy duty relay. Some bikes will
have a start relay and a solinoid, the relay possibly being deactivated by
the neutral switch or the side stand.. On other bikes the start button
powers up the solinoid directly. The solinoid will have two heavy bolt on
connections, one connected to the battery and the other going to the
starter motor. When the solinoid is activated it just joins these two
connections and powers the starter. When it fails to start and just clicks,
make sure the bike is in neutral and cross out these two connections with a
screwdriver or spanner. If the starter turns ok then the solinoid is faulty.
If it doesn't turn then it's either faulty starter faulty battery or faulty
connections to either.

John

 

Troo. I stand corrected.

 

You may well be on the right track, but you really need to
say what kind of bike you're talking about. What make,
model and year bike ?

If the bike has a solenoid, it's probably got a direct connect
to the battery. Small wire from the relay would activate the
solenoid which would then switch current from a really fat
wire running to battery + and activate the starter.


You might also hook a voltmeter to the battery and
look for a drop in voltage.

 

Thanks all for the feedback. In my electrics diagram, it goes Battery
-> Main Switch -> Engine Kill -> Starting circuit cutoff relay ->
Starter Relay -> Starter Motor. However, there's no section on the
Starter Relay, only the Starter Solenoid. This makes sense if they
are the same thing, which it sounds like they are in my bike. It just
seems confusing and stupid for my Chilton's manual to list things by
two different names in two different places. If I didn't have you
guys, how would I know that they're the same?

I just tested the starter motor (good, runs fine), and the starter
solenoid/relay... if I connect the smaller wire (the 'activation'
wire?), the starter works. So it looks like I'm down to either the
Cutoff Relay, or the Kill switches. I'll get an ohmmeter on the way
back and test those.

I love this newsgroup... makes me want to get another bike and try
fixing it up.

-James

I just tried troubleshooting the starter motor: disconnect battery
positive, use a jumper between battery positive and starter motor
positive. Nothing. Looks like I have a bad ground on the starter
motor. It's physically attached to the

 

Hey All,

Yikes, yes sorry. This is the 94 Yamaha XJ600 that I've posted a
couple times about on the boards. I've cleaned out the carbs due to
sitting too long 3 times now (getting to be a pro... hah!) and just
trying to get it running one last time.

 

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Could you possibly have a bad ground of the battery?



Wudsracer/Jim Cook
Smackover Racing
'06 Gas Gas DE300
'82 Husqvarna XC250
Team LAGNAF

 

I just tried troubleshooting the starter motor: disconnect battery

I just spent some time testing a few things. At first it threw me
off, as I tested the Starter Solenoid/Relay (also aka Master Power
Relay? or is that different?) and it worked fine. But after more
testing, I've figured out something. If I connect power to the
starter motor directly, it works fine. If I have the starter motor
attached to the starter relay, it clicks but has ground on the end
terminal to the starter motor (instead of 12v). *However*, if I
disconnect the starter motor from the starter relay and just measure
the voltage on the end terminal, it goes 12v whenever I hit the
starter button. So it seems I have a starter relay that gives 12v
when not connected to anything, but only 0v when connected to the
starter motor. Every once in a while the starter relay will give 12v
when connected, but rarely.

It seems like it could be some kind of short; if the cable to the
starter motor had a short direct to ground then it'd "suck" the
voltage right off the relay? But that doesn't seem likely since I can
connect that cable right to the battery and activate the starter motor
no problem.

I think my next trick is to find another starter relay. I have a ~20
hour time limit on this, which admittedly is very short. I was
thinking of stopping by a car parts store and getting an auto relay
just to allow this thing to start. Is there anything I could use as a
jury rig, just to get it to start a few times? Does anyone know
around how many amps pass through that relay? If I can find a highly
rated relay at the auto parts store, I figure I could use that
temporarily. Otherwise, I may just short the terminals across the
starter relay just to get the thing started for now.

Thanks all, it's fun troubleshooting this bike (albeit the short
timeframe is killing me).

 

12 volts is meaningless by itself. What you want is 12 volts
with some useful amperage. Seems like the relay
points could be crapped up enough that you don't
get enough current to drive the solenoid.

If you jumper direct from the battery to the solenoid
where the relay would normally connect, things work
fine ? If so, probably replacing the relay is a good idea.

 

Yeah, if I jumper the points then the starter works no problem.
Unfortunately I didn't hit my deadline, so the bike is waiting for my
friend to pick it up and maybe he'll have more luck. I did buy a
30amp auto relay, hoping to wire that in temporarily to give me a
chance to at least start the bike. Would that have worked? I
couldn't find any examples of amperage for motorcycle starters, but I
also realize that the requirements must be pretty big. The 30a relay
is small, black, plastic, square. The starter relay was heavy and
cylindrical. Is the old one big because of capacity, or simply
because of old technology? Just curious.

Thanks all for your help, it's really fun to see a random problem that
seems cryptic, and all of the sudden start to understand cause and
effect, and electrical diagrams. It's all starting to make sense
now. I think I'm going to try to pick up a project bike on the east
coast when I get there (I'm moving currently) and try my hand again,
it really is satisfying. Thanks all, hopefully I'll be back in a
couple months with more questions on a different bike.

 

No.

A relay typically uses a low current circuit to control a circuit with a
larger current. It's an electrically control switch.

A solenoid uses electrical power to perform a mechanical action such as
opening or closing a hydraulic valve.

Some automotive starters combine the two functions by switching the large
starting current with a low current circuit controlled by the ignition
switch and then forcing the bendix into the flywheel.

- Nate >>

 

30 amp is more than adequate. It's not switching power to the
starter motor. It's switchin power to activate the starter solenoid
which then makes a separate direct connection between the
battery and starter.

Best of luck.