Is it me, or the bike? BMW K1200RS question

First, I'll give all the qualifications: I've owned this 2002 model
about 2 years now. I bought it new. Prior to that, I hadn't ridden
since I sold my ZX10 about 8 years ago. I'd owned that bike for about 2
years, and a Magna 700 for about a year before that. I've never been on
the track. I like twisty roads, but I'm not a particularly agressive rider.

Now the question: Why can't I get this 640-lb behemoth to lean with any
assurance that it will not lose traction and drop flat on its side?
It's a sport-tourer and I expect some modicum of sporting behavior from
it, but I've been completely unnerved by several incidents. One of
these resulted in a low side during a surprise encounter with gravel,
another in a rear end slide on seemingly clean pavement from which,
through dumb luck, I managed to recover, and a third in front wheel
slippage, also from which I managed to pull through, primarily because
the turn simply ended. I stress that on none of these occasions was I
really pushing the bike, and as far as I know, I was doing everything
right--no untimely brake or throttle applications, for example. I
wasn't leaning very hard, and wasn't even close to touching pegs.

I've since had the bike's suspension checked by the dealer. As far as
tire pressure goes, I'm rather particular about that, keeping it at
BMW's recommended levels.

Have others had similar experiences with this particular model bike? I
know that normally the limit is the rider's ability, and nerve, not the
physical capability of the bike to lean and maintain its grip, which in
most normal circumstances is a non-issue. However, I've lost all
confidence with this bike, and have become rather loathe to do any but
the most rudimentary leaning. And that's no fun.

Thanks for the input.

Khaled

 

You never touched upon tire condition. I have found that I need new tires
every two years. They do not last more than 9,000 to 10,000 miles. Your bike
is heavy. perhaps the tires are in need of replacement?
Phyloe

 

I don't think that's a factor in this case. Tire condition was good to
great in all three situations. I change tires every 5K - 7K miles.

Khaled

 

I'd suggest checking the steering head bearings for tight spots and maybe
try different front tires. My '98 vfr did a pretty good job of convincing
me that my sense of balance was going away. That turned out to be notchy
steering head bearings. Then I acquired an sv650s and found it simply didn't
like to turn. Replacing the 60 series front tire with a 70 (and raising the
fork tubes in the triple clamps) made a wonderful improvement.

Good luck!

bob

 

I have worn out Metzelers on mine. Worn in the centre and like new on
the edges.
I experience a little slippage from time to time unless I am very
smooth The bike doen't inspire a lot of confidence. I am putting a set
of Michelins on when they arrive so I'll see how much difference that
makes.
--
Bob Mann

It's always darkest just before dawn.
So, if you're going to steal the neighbour's newspaper,
That's the time to do it.

 

the telelever BMW's have ball joints rather than conventional steering
bearings, and I've never HEARD of them going bad, even on R11GS's with
200,000 miles that have been used extensively on fire roads and other
dirt...

I've seen K12'RS bikes dropped 2-3 times right in front of me on group
rides, once at fairly high speed. Miraculously, noone was hurt (one bike
was totalled, another required minor tweaking to complete the trip).
Each of these occasions, I was just a few 100' behind them on my lighter
and nimbler R1100RS, having no problems at all.

IMHO, the K1200RS is just too big and too heavy to really be a good
'twisty road' bike. its in its element on big radius high speed sweeper
turns.

 

On my somewhat lighter and lower powered R1100RS, I've tried MeZ4, Dunlop
D205, and Bridgestone BT020, and come to the conclusion that I like the
handling and ride the best on the MeZ4 (MeZ4B in front for the BMW). I
wear out a back tire about every 5000 miles (flat spotted in the middle,
with only about 50% wear on the sides), while my fronts last ~7000 miles
(worn evenly from chicken strip to chicken strip). When I first started
riding this bike, I was wearing the fronts out FASTER than the rear.

Now, my R11RS is about 100 lbs lighter than your K12RS, and it has maybe
40-50 less HP. Its suspension is nearly identical (although subtle
differnces in rake, and trail exist, and the K12 has a longer wheelbase)

 

Sadly, that's the conclusion I'm reaching.

 

I get new D-205's every 4000 miles. By then the front is cupped and the
rear is worn enough that it's not worth it to only change the front. My
K-RS leans until it drags the saddle bags, and it's still got the stock
shock; never been dropped but I know the ABS works. I use the 15%
pressure increase rule, which gives me 28 front and 30 rear, cold.
YMMV. Every time it visits the dealer, it comes back with 32/34.
There's probably a relationship between compound, pressure, mileage, and
traction...

Ken

 

A dissent here--I rode a friend's K12RS on one of our local twisty roads
(2nd and 3rd gear turns mostly) and had lots of fun. I found it fairly
light steering and more willing to lean than I was on a bike that didn't
belong to me.

I would suggest coming down a few pounds on the tires. Two of your
incidents (not the gravel-induced lowside) could have been caused by
excessive tire pressure. I'm not sure what's up with mfr's pressure
recommendations these days, but they seem extraordinarily high. For
example, there's no way I'm going to run the specified 36/42 on my VFR
because it's way too skittish with the tires that hard. At 34/36 it
feels much better.

 

and I'd recommend upping that to 38-40 front, 42 rear, the telelever is
murder on front tires, hence the cupping.

 

It you have any doubt about your skills, why not take a track
school? It is bound to increase your skill level and a good instructor
may be able to point out things that you could do better. Hopefully
you would learn enough to determine whether it is your skill level
or the bike that resulted in the situations you described.

 

KS, you're getting conflicting advice on tire pressures now. Consider
which problem you're trying to solve -- tire cupping or traction? FWIW,
I'm with Dan that you might try lower pressures and see how the bike
sticks.

I ride an ST1100 which is heavier and has a less sophisticated
suspension than your K12RS. With sport touring tires it'll stick until
the peg is folded up and the fairing is dragging. Whiile I don't know
how you ride, I do suspect rider input more than the bike unless there
is something really wrong with the particular bike.

A few things to look at in your riding would be:

1) Throttle control - immediately after leaning the bike into the turn,
crack on the throttle and maintain a gentle roll-on through the whole
turn.

2) One steering input per turn. In most turns it's possible to ride a
constant arc through the turn. This will help you keep a steady load on
the tires and will make judging traction a little easier.

3) Relax on the bike mid-turn. You want your arms and torso loose on
the bike as you ride the turn. Tense arms will interoduce unintended
steering inputs that tend to upset the bike.

ab

 

I actually picked a friend early this summer after he lowsided on his
K1200RS. We were going up a hill and then through a left. The rear end
just stepped out and hit the guardrail, causing a lowside. I still don't
know why it happened, but he was ok. The bike got totalled though.

 

It's you.

Go slow. Think about the turn. Focus on makign every turn "sweet" and
you will eventually pick up speed.

Charles

PS-you can always use a belt sander to wear off the "chikin strips"

 

Did you ask if he rolled off the throttle during the turn?

 

I know he didn't, I was right behind him when the rear end stepped out. We
weren't really even going that fast, maybe 30mph. I really don't know why
it happened, the tires were new but not brand spanking new, and the road
conditions were fine and I made it through on a similar line on my daytona.

Andrew
00 Daytona
00 Speed Triple
http://ultrasupercool.com

 

Cos it's a ballistic missile. Had one on loan while my bike was being
serviced. Terrifying going round corners on it. Had to ride like it was
raining. It's a 1,000 motorway miles per day tourer with blue touch paper.

 

Hmm. I took the even larger, heavier, LT model over Mt Hamilton a
couple of years ago, and it did everything I asked of it, even when I
had to suddenly tighten my turn to avoid a car, crossing a trail of
gravel. If it's giving you a conspicuous lack of confidence in these
situations -- greater than you feel on some other machine -- I'd start
searching for the cause. Start at the ground and work up. Tire
condition, tire inflation, suspension set up...

It's also possible that something about the steering geometry has
resulted in it requiring a more vigorous input than you are used to
for a given change, and you are reacting to your expectation of the
behavior of some other motorcycle. A couple of hours in the twisties
should take care of that, all else being OK...

Al Moore
DoD 734

 

Too many fucking deer.

-B