IQ scores

Ah, the old "half the <whatevers> continue to fall below average"
argument.

 

Well unless we want to split hairs over the definition of higher
education (perhaps I should have said tertiary education) we are, as
deadmail pointed out, talking about an elite of 46%. The government is
aiming for 50%, at which point it could be argued the "average" will do
it.

[What would a high court judge understand by the word 'elite' I wonder?
The best 90% would be better than the other 10% by whatever method they
were deemed to be so selected, but I suspect most people would associate
the word elite with a minority group. You don't often see reference to a
'large elite' (in this context anyway).]

<resists temptation to quote W.S. Gilbert>

DFES: "Universities are a vital gateway to opportunity and fulfilment
for young people, so it is crucial that they continue to make real and
sustained improvements in access. The social class gap among those
entering higher education is unacceptably wide. Those from the top three
social classes are almost three times as likely to enter higher
education as those from the bottom three. Figure 2, below, is even more
disturbing, because it shows that the gap has widened. At the extremes,
the picture is worse. Young people from professional backgrounds are
over five times more likely to enter higher education than those from
unskilled backgrounds."

Now this is interesting. It is impossible that the gap can ever be
completely closed, but with the widening of access to higher education
it presumably is still down to financial constraints on parents and
students (tuition fees are only part of the story).

With you there, except that I really wonder where I would be now if I
had been through the comprehensive system.

I would have no problem with this view if all comprehensive schools
managed to promote the same ethos as the best. I don't mean simply
academically and league table result terms.

My lad will be starting secondary school in a couple of years and SWMBO
is already investigating the options.

Being a teacher she is more in the know about what goes on for real,
rather than just the league table stuff. Having done some supply
teaching not long ago in a whole range of schools, she keeps telling me
that what amazed her most was the way in which outwardly similar schools
were so different.

She cited two comprehensive schools in very similar areas as regards
ethnic make up and affluence. One was a really great school where the
kids were keen to learn and there were no major problems. The other had
kids screaming round the corridors all day and the sort of drugs and
violence problems the media love. What was the difference? She could
only put it down to the Headteacher.

So can you blame parents making the effort to move in to the area of the
former rather than the latter (and hoping the head stays the same for
the duration of their child's stretch)?


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You're assuming the 50% who go on to higher education are the best 50%,
whereas there are other factors involved (whether they want to, can
afford to, have a job to go into etc).

Many of the top 50% in the exam results won't continue their education,
leaving spaces to be filled by those in the lower 50% So whilst the
people who finish H.E. may be the elite in education terms, those who
start it aren't, iyswim.

--
Krusty
www.MuddyStuff.co.uk
Off-Road Classifieds

'02 MV Senna '03 Tiger 955i '96 Tiger '79 Fantic Hiro 250

 

it doesn't exactly coroborate what you said either. I'm not going to
look to the web for backup here, but IMO, an "elite" must be less than
50% of any group.

 

Not really.

 

There seems to be an acute shortage.

 

We had at least two who moved from comp to grammar in the two years I
was there.
My school was streamed. Alpha and A bands. Alpha was all the kids
who'd migrated from the now defunct grammar school and A was all the
kids still going to Rainham Secondary Modern.

We were still isolated. The only times the two streams met was on the
games field[1] or at break. With predictable results. Even the
teachers remained teaching the kids they'd taught in the old regime.

Our grammar had a pretty wide cross-section of socio-economic
groupings in it. Not evenly distributed, but "council house single
parent on benefits" was not a bar to entry.

[1] Not even then, really - we played rugby, the scum^W RSM boys
played football.
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<Self begging to differ>

Having grown up in Lunnon there is a big difference in the London
accent and Kent. And London and Essex. And Kent and Essex.

Phil

 

Mine didn't stream kids.. and it had been (up to just before my oldest
brother went there) been a grammar school.

We all were in the same classes - the only 'streaming' that went on was
dividing into whether people were doing the O level or the CSE.

Phil

 

And *which* London accent, anyhow. There are many.

Ali

 

Alison Hopkins says...

Innit?

 

Cream of the literati (5)


--
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Brunel University. Ivan.Reid@[brunel.ac.uk|cern.ch] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
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KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".

 

The proper one - Norf Lunnon. Barnet.

Phil

 

Indeed. Which probably psycologically scarred me for life. So - who do
I sue?

Phil

 

Well - she can afford a few ex-gratia payouts I would think..

Phil

 

<sniffs and draws sleeve across nose>

Nah. Neasden every time.

Ali

 

Either.

Or were you talking about slitting your wrists?...

--
Ivan Reid, Electronic & Computer Engineering, ___ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Ivan.Reid@[brunel.ac.uk|cern.ch] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
GSX600F, RG250WD "You Porsche. Me pass!" DoD #484 JKLO#003, 005
WP7# 3000 LC Unit #2368 (tinlc) UKMC#00009 BOTAFOT#16 UKRMMA#7 (Hon)
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".

 

It was run by the same people that were running it as a Grammar school.
I think they had the egalitarian bug really really badly - even school
sports days were 'inclusive'[1].

And what's with the 'how Phil turned out' bit? Have I kicked your
favourite cat or something? Or are you just being a bandwagon
arsehole?

Phil.

 

I went to an ex-grammar comprehensive and we have streaming into four
"sets" in all the major subjects. IIRC it was only PE, RE and Home Ec
that weren't.

The sets dictated which GCSE's papers you could take. The bottom two
sets could only take the first paper which allowed you grades up to a
D, the top two sets could take the second paper in each subject which
allowed ABC grades.

I think it worked quite well, but the bottom sets should have been
given the option to take both exam papers.