I'm Scared

I've just seen the size of my contact patch:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?S4C921C8B

That really is fucking minute. I thought the tyres, well, squidged down a
bit more than that.

 

"I've got this really cool picture of me on a racetrack. I want all you
guys to see and admire it, but I'll pretend it's a post about tyre
contact patch".

--

Paul.
CBR1100XX SuperBlackbird
BOTAFOT #4
BOTAFOF #30
MRO #24

 

Paul Carmichael wrote

They are not cool at all, they have got fucking writing all over them
they are fucking crap and I ain't even going to start on the quality of
the shots and technical stuff.

 

There are better pictures of me on the site. I genuinely was surprised. But
whatever.

 

Did anyone notice how square the tyre was? click "next" to compare.

 

It works doesn't it? So what's the problem?

 

You have mail ;-)

Cheers

Paul.

 

So you've never looked at anyone else riding then?

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2
`\|/`
`

 

I've never stared at the contact patch of a bike in front of me, from a
viewpoint directly in line with the rear tyre, while trying to
negotiate a tight bend, no.

 

It's worked *so far*, at the relatively low speeds and lean angles I
can achieve. Makes me realise what a knife-edge we all play on - it
wouldn't take much to break that small contact patch and stick me in
the bushes / tyrewall / whatever. Also makes you realise how fucking
impressive modern tyres are.

 

'Previous' is a better comparison. Damn those motorways and those pies.

 

Out of interest, how do you think they could be significantly improved?
They're a million miles better than I could achieve, and for the number
of shots he took during the day, and the time he had for each one, I
thought they were pretty good.

 

Monkey wrote

Get rid of all the silly writing.

 

<Steve Parrish Mode>
"The tyre has a contact patch the size of a credit card"
</spm>

 

This is bollocks. You ride more than competently, as you well know.

All that you're showing up here is how your perception doesn't match
reality. Whether the contact patch is large or small is neither here
nor there - why on earth do you think bigger is better [1] You know
how well your brakes work - have you seen how small the pads are?
Does that scare you too.

The OP is right - it works, so stop worrying about it.

[1] for instance, in snowy conditions, rally drivers fit narrower
tyres.

 

Cheers for that. I know I'm fairly quick now, but I - like you - never
scrape the pegs, and there are faster 600 riders (and 400 riders, for that
matter) on the trackdays I do, so there's a lot more corner speed I can get.
I have plenty of moments where the back steps out on the throttle which, I
know, are down to me being on the throttle too hard, but I can't help
thinking wouldn't have happened on wider, stickier rubber.

My 'bigger being better' thoughts are that, by spreading the power over a
larger area, you're a) putting less demands on each square cm of the tyre,
and b) reducing the impact of debris or slippery substances on the track
breaking contact with the road entirely. I know there are many negatives to
bigger tyres - slower steering being the main one I can think of, as well as
increasing aquaplaning tendencies in wet conditions. What I'd really like to
do is be able to swap between otherwise identical bikes on different tyres,
and see if my perceived positives and negatives hold true in the real world.

I'm not really worrying about it, but this year is the first time I've got
to know a circuit very well, and be able to start experimenting on the finer
points of my riding technique and equipment setup. Previously I've hit a
wall, because I've always just tended to go out and ride bikes by just
getting a 'feel' for things, and not really concentrating hard on one
particular aspect. That approach is fine to a point, but to get that extra
20% I need to start working on things a bit more scientifically.

I'm very tempted to do some lessons, but having watched the classes that go
on in-between my track session at European Superbike School events, I
suspect I might get a bit frustrated with having to ride at low speeds in a
procession of 20 riders, just to get my gearchanges in the right place or
whatever.

The only 'high level' lessons I've ever had were in snowboarding, and all it
took was two hours with a French instructor, telling me to keep my weight
more directly over my board, to produce a step change in every aspect of my
boarding. If I could hit on the same sort of thing for my track riding, I'd
be overjoyed.

Oh crap - I'm supposed to be saving for a wedding, but I can see a lot of
cash being blown on bikes next year. Ho hum.

 

That does not always follow. Max cornering angle is determined my many
things, including body weight, height, how much you hang off, even
tyre pressures and suspension settings, as well as actual 'speed'.
Also remember that it's usually the guy that gets upright first and
gets the power down that's quicker overall, rather than the one who
needs to lean more in the bend and possibly be later on the gas.
Witness Rossi vs. the world at almost any GP this year.

Possibly, but that bigger contact patch would mean you had to lean
more for the same speed, due to the larger profile needed to give it,
hance probably negating the extra grip it might bring. Obviously
there's a balance to be struck, but in general fitting much wider
rubber than standard will probably slow you down more than it'll give
you extra usable grip.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2
`\|/`
`

 

There's always someone faster.

If you had wider stickier rubber, it'd step out at a different point.
It would still have a limiting point, which, if you're thinking about
your riding, you should still understand it.

ISTR we had a similar conversation on here about this a while ago.

Personally, I really don't see the benefit in that sort of thing.

Well, sometimes there is a single 'magic bullet' piece of advice, but
that is relatively rare in my experience. What you need to do is slow
down by 10% on your next track outing, and use that 10% of mental
energy to think about what is going on. If the rear is sliding too
much for comfort, think about what you can do to minimise that - take
a different line, pick the bike up earlier, be more controlled on the
throttle. Focusing on the tyres themselves is massively missing the
point - you should be aware of the limits of the tyre no matter how
much grip it does or doesn't have.

This sort of problem solving is what good riders and racers are doing
all the time. And, it's all in "Twist of the Wrist", which I know
I've recommended before.

 

Yep - and that conversation probably shaved a second and a half off my
laptime at Brands, so I thought I'd try it again

Isn't some formal training a pre-requisite of getting an ACU licence these
days? Not that I'd consider going racing with all the cost / time / broken
bones consequences. Nnnngggg....

Good advice, ta. Hard to do if you're being timed, but one to try on my next
track evening methinks.

And I now have a (I assume) cut-down copy, which was free on the cover of
last month's Fast Bikes magazine. Extremely useful stuff, although I haven't
finished it yet, and the bits I have read will take a while to sink in.

 

That 'getting the bike upright quick' thing is a very good point. Fucking
obvious now you've mentioned it, but not something that had really occurred
to me. Duh.

Point taken, but the later '6R models seem to get away with a fatter hoop on
the back without too much problem, so I reckon I'm slightly below the
optimum balance point. It's all largely hypothetical though, until I can
afford to change the bike, as I don't fancy doing any major bike mods to
allow me to run a larger tyre on this one. The newer GSXR750s are definitely
catching my eye.