If you don't want ID cards to be introduced

What civil liberties have we lost?

No, what they're doing is giving you a bone to chew on to take your mind off
things that really are important.

No, it isn't clear at all. It's all relative. What will probably happen is
that you'be inundated with even more spam mail than before.

 

Like what?

 

Little things like accountability for war, European integration,
environmental stuff, etc. Stuff that all fades into the background when
we're presented with the atrocity of ID cards and the infringement of our
Personal Liberties.

 

Phew... for a moment I thought we'd missed something insidious.

 

Don't you follow the news? The basic right to be considered innocent until
proven guilty, the right not to be detained without trial, the right to have
evidence presented a court of your piers, the right to a trial by jury, the
right to silence, the right not to have to incriminate yourself.

At the moment the government is placating people by saying that these
restrictions only apply to terrorists, but nobody has set a bar for what you
have to do to be a terrorist.

Nothing is more important the civil liberties. Nothing. Civil liberties
are what preseve the line between politicians being our servants and being
our masters.

--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1, Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, DS#5, COSOC# Suspended, KotTFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.

 

The right to privacy, you now have to prove your innocent etc:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4220427.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4552441.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2669211.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/newsnight/1460003.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1761974.stm

 

Neat point. But I don't think it follows that you shouldn't object to
ID cards if you don't like the idea, as long as you don't take your
eye of the bigger balls IYSWIM.

Personally I do object to ID cards, but what stopped me voting Labour
for the first time in my life was the Iraq war abroad and imprisonment
without trial at home.

 

Oh my god! We must be days away from the One True Evil unveiling its master
plan of putting us all under house arrest for no reason whatsoever! Run for
the hills!

Do you think the definition of terrorist is as open to interpretation as
"biker"? Maybe there's an Irq.destiny.terrorist newsgroup somewhere where
hard-core fundamentalists are chiding those of a lesser persuasion for not
sleeping with high explosives under the bed.

Anyway being an ugly northern monkey has got to be fairly far down the list
of entry requirements so I wouldn't worry just yet.

You live in Dreamworld. Politicians are Business's bitches and have been for
decades. Not only is it not always about you, it's never about you.

Anyway, you seem to still be free enough to ride motorycles, despite your
obvious and well known proclivity for hurling them at tubular metal
contructions, so what you whining about?

 

That's my point: that the furore over ID cards seems to do exactly that. We
know the governent is adept at slipping out of the noose while pointing and
saying "look over there!" and that's how I feel about ID cards.

I've got the song Razzle Dazzle going around my head now

#How can they see with sequins in their eyes....

 

Yeah, I guess the same goes for me. I could end up doing a Fred Hill,
but probably not for this.

 

AndrewR wrote

At last, a role for ukrm in mainstream society.

 

So, for instance AndrewR is concerned about the victimisation of Asians in
the country? Or believes that the restrictions will someday soon extend to
himself and his family?

This is just another piece of the "war on terror". To not tackle it at its
root, but to get up in arms (hur hur), over a somewhat implausible idea of a
military state is typical of this country's poptastic approach to its own
government's ethics.

"Apparently the war in Iraq was not legal"
"Yeah...but...I don't know, maybe it's better that we did it anyway"
"Also I hear that they're going to introduce mandatory identity cards"
"WHAT?!! I'm going to tear my own eyes out, put them on a pike and march to
Downing Street!"

 

Yes, http://www.electricinca.com/idcards/node05.html

 

The point, Captain Sarcastic, is that once these laws on on the books then
it's a done deal. So you don't just have to trust in this government being
benign, you also have to trust the government that follows them, and the
government that follows them and so on for the next couple of hundred years.

You have to absolutely trust that nobody is ever going to get into power,
dismantle democracy and then say that anybody who opposes them is an enemy
of the state and needs to be arrested. Because, you know, history shows us
that that kind of thing really can happen.

Even to sarcastic people.

--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1, Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, DS#5, COSOC# Suspended, KotTFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.

 

That is actually making more sense and is far more scary than even I
originally thought.

Still don't wnat a fukcing ID card though.
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS 75 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

Useful, perhaps. But why should the voters be forced to have something that
is useful *if they don't want it*. Or do you mean useful to someone else?
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS 75 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

Equally, I've never seen quoted a decent reason to have an ID card (as
opposed to an entitlement document, of which I have a plethora)

Care to go for it? I am genuinely interested in what people think is going
to be the benefit.
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS 75 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

Catman wrote

I am agin 'em. However, I sat here for a minute thinking of a few
arguments in favour, in order that I could take the piss out of it in
some way with a silly post and very quickly came to the conclusion that
as a means of identification there is simply no need for any extra over
and above what I can currently provide.

As a means of oppression they have got to be a number one tool though.

 

As above.
Sure, if you don't have a passport or driving licence, they may well be
useful, but I cannot conceive of a single instance where could need one
unless there are now, or are going to be soon, situations in which I will
be *required* to prove my identity *on the spot*. If we do end up with
those situtations, we're in trouble IMO.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS 75 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

He's good. I subscribe to his newsletter.