If you don't want ID cards to be introduced

How do you know?

 

gomez wrote

I am A Parent, I know *everything*.

 

I thought it was the teenaged kids that knew everything?
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The NL answer to everything.

 

Catman wrote

And who do you think they learn it from? Those who have gone before is
who.

 

In a Department of Homeland Security test-off a couple of years ago, the
best system managed an accuracy of 51%. Thus no better than flipping a
coin. Things have improved fractionally since, but they are nowhere near
reliable enough to entrust "security" to. In 2003 the government estimates
of the cost of ID cards were £1.3-3.0bn. Last year they had risen to
£3.3bn. They are now £5.0-5.5bn, but independent analysts say they could be
a multiple of that. So, an inaccurate, unreliable system which could cost
anything. What a fucking brilliant way to make everybody feel safer,
without actually achieving a damn thing.

 

Mark wrote

The trial has tremendous validity. for a start it gives a measurable
level of competence of a given starting technology to guide areas of
further development and if your assumption is that newer technology will
perform better it even adds a benchmark to test against.

I am not so sure the failures are as bad as you hystericalise about.
Aren't there car manufacturers putting fingerprint scanning stuff in
door handles? I don't know the details but I fancy this is quite
reliable.

Collect your child from school, don't they walk home?

I agree.

 

steve auvache wrote:

I would suspect that they are actually quite lax and inclined to give more
false positives than one would find desirable in a serious security
environment. I could be wrong though.

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Catman wrote

I would have thought they would have a designed in inclination towards
false negatives in that case. Just to be on the safe side like.

Easily. Although there is an even most astonishing outcome in prospect,
which you shouldn't rule out entirely.

 

Except that would piss of the customers, who are spending lots of money on
their cars with this new toy. Coupled with the observation that a false
positive is *far* more likley to be noticed during day to day operation
than a false positive.

Either you're crediting me with talking some sense, or you've whooshed me.
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Catman wrote

It would depend Shirley? Presumably they will have done their market
testing and know just how many times a day we are prepared to put up
with our car saying "I don't know you, now **** off or I call the pigs"
and it must pass some customer appreciation tests.

Be careful of who you are accusing of what, eh.

 

Well, I would think that typically a car is attempted to be opened by the
correct person a *lot* more than someone with nefarious purposes. I would
think there are cases where a car may go through it's entire life and never
have an un-authorised person try to open it.

AIUI it's pretty well documented that false negatives piss people off quite
a lot. Couple that with a possibility that the car may only infrequently
have to reject access and you may see where I'm coming from.

Of course, I'm sure they have, and I'm not saying that the system is
worthless, or their data is worthless. I very much doubt they would
release their false positive / false negative figures for general
consumption though.

Don't forget, even with technology as 'basic' as keys, there have been a
fair few cases where people have driven off in the wrong car, purely by
accident. All 'ID' technology of this type must, surely, have an error
factor built in. It would be easier to skew electronic access though.

Sorry. It won't happen again
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Catman wrote

I are not surprised.

Done it meself. Came out of the Irish Club in Holloway Road at well
past closing time and got in my guvners van and had the engine started
before I realised. Group 4 we worked for.

 

Sounds like a twoccer's charter to me. Far easier and quicker and
less conspicuous to trail your finger down a line of posh cars outside
the Ritz than trying door handles..

 

Didn't have fingerprints on them, just name and address, number, holder's
signature and a rubber stamp.

 

I suspect the printing will be a little more involved than that, but ISTBC
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And it looks like people seem to be waking up at last

The channel 4 news poll of last night gave the results as

20% want ID cards

80% dont

A bit of a swing there

 

raden wrote

While Blur and his shady mates might be persuaded to take note of the
figures supplied by Mark, I doubt they give a shit about Channel 4's
findings.

 

I suspect the figures are *very* dependent on what exact question is asked.
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Well, considering the percentages the last time they took a poll, I'd
say it was a considerable shift and will be reflected in proper polls
in due course