I PASSED!!!!"`!!

When I was keeping the bike at low revs I noticed that I was always
shifting gears. Keeping it at around 5-6k has meant that I don't have
to change gears as often. This is a good thing. The advice I've
received here has been invaluable, and has filled in the gaps that
were opened while I was doing my training.

While riding through Canterbury yesterday I was fiddling with the
heated grip control switch in slow moving traffic and had cause (when
I looked up!) to stop rather quickly. Instead of squeezing the front
brake as I have been told all along, from CBT onwards, I grabbed the
front brake and wow, that stopped dead right away - not good as I
almost left my seat and my feet left the pegs rather quickly. When
I'd hopped back into the correct position I released the front brakes
and the front shocks popped up again, which I wasn't expecting. Deffo
need an emergency stop day today.

Ahh, oh well. Will have to work on it.

My riding school said in no uncertain terms that the DSA have told
them, and all other driving schools NOT to teach Counter steering, as
the DSA believe "it's not possible." - even the DSA Riding handbook
only gives it one paragraph, which gives no information whatsoever.

Counter steering is a complete mystery to me because of it. I just
gather it's something that is done at high speeds that I know nothing
of.

Oh yeah, and when you say INSIDE BAR - what are you referring to?
I've heard about "pushing the inside bar" before but I'm not sure what
it is.

I will hopefully pop along to BOSM - I'm currently in email contact
with Lozzo. I imagine that I'll be the one lagging behind everyone
else!

I've managed it during normal motorway riding, but when I came up to
something unexpected yesterday I noticed that I adopted an iron grip
again, which didn't help with steering.

 

However, having just skimmed through the FAQ, I have a better
understanding of it now.

 

Take out 3 of your 4 plugs then see.

 

Jolly good. You will be doing it, as it is the only way to steer a
bike once moving. But doing it intentionally precludes use of the
knees ;-)

 

Which just goes to show the people who write the guidelines don't ride
bikes. I'm pretty sure it's impossible to lean a bike over at speed
without countersteering. You can 'encourage' it by weighting the inside
peg and/or using your bodyweight, but there's no way that's enough to
lay it over fast at speed - the gyroscopic forces are just too great.

If the DSA believe "it's not possible", they should spend a couple of
seconds playing with a pushbike wheel, or take a trip to the Nemo
centre in Amsterdam, where one of the hands-on exhibits proves exactly
this point.

 

I had no idea I was already doing it, as it was all a bit of a mystery
to me before. I thought it was some high speed thing that I wouldn't
master for years to come.

While that may be true, I'm glad that some of themystery has gone now.

 

It proves no such thing.
The gyroscopic forces are orders of magnitude too small.
If you think otherwise, consider this:
If a small push to the right can lay the bike on its left side
due to gyroscopic forces, then what would happen to the back wheel
which has its axis suddenly pushed down hard on the left hand side?

Now find your favourite hump-backed bridge and fly over it.
Repeat a couple of times until you know your flying time.
Now try it but while in the air, turn the bars to the right
(and back again so you land straight) and notice how little
the bike turns to the left.

Countersteering works because the contact patch steers to one side
and the bike falls over to the other.

What's this metal pointy thing in my mouth?

 

What? Not possible? Do they think it will confuse people, or do they
think it's against the laws of physics or something. Sounds like the
people who run the DSA can't ride for toffee.

It's simple, if you want to go right, you push the right grip away from
you. I find that it helps to sort of lean your body into the handle bar
as it were... feels more natural than just sitting there and pushing the
bar away from you.

<snip>

Heh, there'll be all sorts of speeds and levels of rider going, so don't
worry about it.

 

It proves a wheel tries to flop to the side when you change the axis of
rotation, and that does have a noticeable effect at high enough speeds.
Try riding two identical bikes through a series of flip-flaps at speed,
one with cast wheels & one with carbon Dymags - you'll notice the
difference.

I agree 100% that is certainly the main force, especially on the
initial input. I was going to suggest Nick watches some old Yank cop
shows where they chuck ridiculously softly suspended cars round corners
- shows it quite nicely.

However the main point is the DSA's instructions are plain wrong. We
all know countersteering works, & you won't get a bike layed over at
speed without it, regardless of the forces at play.

You've sat on a very long screwdriver?

 

Bollocks. "Valves bouncing" is the optimum.

Ah.

 

I wouldn't bank on it. You'll probably get back to the pub, and start
moaning about some daft twat on a yellow Firestorm, or red GL1500, who
kept blocking your overtakes.

 

Nick wrote

Once you come to know it you will find that it is something done
instinctively and really only needs your input on those rare occasions
that you wish to go a bit further than instinct normally lets you.
Other than that it is no big deal, except to a few muppets who still
don't understand and riders of shaft driven motorcycles.

 

Champ wrote

The problem is though that "normal" riding requires no preplanned and
thought about input as the countersteering just happens. It is only
when you are riding in the "enthusiastic" part of the curve that
positive input is needed and it is kin hard to explain to somebody that
countersteering is exactly what they do already only more so when the
exactly what they do already is full of subtle movements that are so
instinctive they are hard to follow.

They don't need fucking maths they need practical training.

 

I've just worked out how at all works. Fantastic feeling! It all
makes sense now!

When something is going in a line at speed, and one turns the bars to
the left, the bike will lean to the right. I didn't get it at first.

There is an example in the FAQ about two water beakers that are glued
together at the top. That's the wheel. Take one of the cups on its
own, push it and it turns in a circle.

On my way home tonight I was driving in a straight line at about 35mph
on a clear road and I pushed the right-hand bar and pulled the left
with my other hand. The bike moved to the right. Surprised, I was
coming up to a left hand bend, I pushed the left hand bar, turning the
wheel to the right, and I went left.

At that moment it all clicked! I understood what was happening and I
monitored what I was doing out of instinct around the other bends,
then I decided I would disengage auto-corner-pilot and I would
purposefully push the bars around the next few corners. Worked a
treat! I felt far more confident and even pulled out the throttle a
little more. It's so much easier now that I know what I'm actually
doing.

Thanks everyone!

I've even worked out what my aching hands now mean. When I was
turning right I would notice my left hand would ache - I thought this
was me holding on too tight (I guess it was) but I now know it was
because I was fighting the counter steering!

 

Nick wrote

You just wait until you try to ride a shaftie.

 

<applause>

 

?

 

<AOL>

That said, I found out what it meant when I took the CB750 for a blast
this weekend. Christ, however did we ride those bastard things back in
the 1970s?

 

Your's is a nice one too. Mine fair put me off Hondas.

 

Yes, one could consider it a 4" version of "getting yer knee down."