I knew it was goping to be too good to be true.

I've still got a spare set of downpipes if they're of any use

--
Dan L (Oldbloke)

My bike 1996 Kawasaki ZR1100 Zephyr
Space in shed where NSR125 used to be
Spare Bike 1990 Suzuki TS50X (Patio Ornament)
BOTAFOT #140 (KotL 2005/6), X-FOT#000, DIAABTCOD #26, BOMB#18 (slow), OMF#11

 

Molly Fletcher wrote

Not an option.

If it had one I promise it would only ever be used to starter the bike
if the bike would reliably start first kick every kick and I would only
do it when in sight of the local 6th form girls college. My days of
jumping up and down on a kickstart are long long gone as far as I am
concerned.

Various batteries lying around the estate are currently being evaluated
for exactly this purpose. There isn't anything else left to check. It
has reached the point where I know an awful lot about what it is not and
I am having to consider silliness like this to be a distinct
possibility.

I haven't got a clue where me jump leads are though. I have a horrible
feeling they might have been thrown in as part of a deal to make the
last car I sold a more attractive purchase.

 

True CDI is not directly dependent on battery voltage but the speed
with which the motor is whacked over will determine the output from the
charging coil in the stator and hence the spark strength.

Definitely worth trying a jump from the biggest battery you can get
access to.

The later nordies have an ignition system which at first sight looks
the same as the early CDI but is actually an inductive set up. With
these the battery voltage will directly influence the spark strength.

Otherwise, if the cranking voltage output from the charging coil in the
stator is up to spec. and the HT coil is good (resistance checked out
OK by the sound of it) it looks as if it could be the ignition module


I did once find that some corrosion on the timing 'pips' and the sender
unit, together with an out of spec. air gap between them prevented the
CDI big bore nordie from firing (unless jumped from a car battery).

 

With respect, I acknowledge what you say, but a pristine battery will
remove all doubt about the ignition system if the bike fires up OK.
Once in the situation where you can fettle the running bike, you can
replace the pristine battery and see you the original one works.
Batteries can have peculiar faults, and motorcycle batteries are much
higher-tech that car batteries.

Wot rain....I've got lawn (ROFL) that died ages ago.....

 

I think the downpipes are OK. It's the collector box/balance pipe
thingie that's rotted out. I suspect she's going to end up getting
Zorstec to make one up.

 

wrote

No point, I know what the problem was and it wasn't the battery.

It was the plugs.

Nothing that much wrong with the ones that came out really. Last week
they propelled me to all sorts of speeds but after revisiting all the
places I had been and confirming that all the immobilizer immobilizes
only the starter motor relay it just sort of occurred to me to swap
plugs on the bikes and low and behold it worked. I don't understand it.

 

Kim Bolton wrote

Now I know that a plug change cured the problem and add to that what I
have learnt about that bike over the last couple of days I think I have
half a clue what it might be and it does fit in sort of with what Molly
said and would be more of an issue at low battery voltages but only with
a stuffed battery and very low voltages. On it's own I believe the
battery will behave exactly the same as with any other bike and give
similar problems when problems occur. Mine, as I have said, is fine.
My theory though isn't, as it relies rather heavily on some marginal
sums by Suzuki and plug electrodes increasing dramatically and suddenly
in resistance in old age and I don't think they do that.

Who told you that load of old bollox? If they were higher tech they
would last a lot longer than 5 minutes out of warranty.

 

Molly Fletcher wrote

What is this "collector box" mechanism of which you and so many others
speak? Is it somewhere to collect the overflow from the liquid cooling
systems that you all seem to favour?

 

look on ebay, bloke that sold me mine has had several since



--
Dan L (Oldbloke)

My bike 1996 Kawasaki ZR1100 Zephyr
Space in shed where NSR125 used to be
Spare Bike 1990 Suzuki TS50X (Patio Ornament)
BOTAFOT #140 (KotL 2005/6), X-FOT#000, DIAABTCOD #26, BOMB#18 (slow), OMF#11

 

Odd. Hope they keep working. Fresh plugs will sometimes spark up OK on
a 'bad' ignition system at first then give up again. At least the
maddening behaviour that two-strokes can exhibit with slightly dodgy
plugs can be ignored.

There was a CR500 at Loton Park last season. It would start, run for a
few seconds then expire. The owner tried various previously perfect
spare plugs all with the same result before assuming it must be
something else. "Nah - just try a brand new plug", said a stroker
expert. He was right.

 

wrote

I am wondering if it isn't actually something very similar to plug
oiling on a smoker.

In the process of taking it apart and sorting out this and that, I end
up on Thursday evening with a bike that has had everything done that was
planned and only needed starting and having the carbs fettled roughly
before the plastic could be bolted back on and I could get back to me
hooligan ways.

I have got all the bits scattered around and duly set myself up a 1
litre petrol tank gaffa taped to the frame at about the right height and
wiv a tap and everything. The 1 litre petrol tank previously contained
shaftie axle oil, some residue undoubtedly remained. The plastic petrol
can what I used top fill my temporary tank had some petrol smelling
liquid in the bottom to which I added about a quart of fresh stuff from
the tank.

It ran and I was quite happy and set about the business of going in and
sorting it but before I could it ran worse and worse and worse and
finally stopped running at all.

I do wonder if the concoction of "additives" to that first burst of fuel
was enough to send the plugs to an early grave.

Striker experts often are, the cunts. My first journey will be to
somewhere where I can buy new plugs though.

 

Nope - the Zephyr is aircooled. It's basically just a fat ballance pipe
between the two 2 into 1 exausts on the zephyr but more generally the
collector box is where the downpipes collect together to feed into the
silencer.

 

I'm glad to hear that you have the problem sorted.

Oh yes they do...or at least, they can.

Some spark plugs, not necessarily all but I'm not too familiar with
the manufacturing technology, have a pressed-together central electode
assembly. The contact between the two pressed-together parts can
corrode over time, which results in a dramatic rise in the resistance
measured between the spark end and the HT-lead end. If you have a
multimeter and the old plugs available, you might like to measure the
resistances, It just could surprise you.

 

Kim Bolton wrote

Its carburettion though innit, solve one problem and all you do is
highlight another two.

I have been having a play today and the conclusion I draw is an odd one.

On a purely practical side the bike will start and run with the battery
down to below 11.5V, no probs *provided* the plugs aren't sooty. Give
it a minute or two coughing and spluttering on super rich and get the
plugs all sooty and it won't start on anything other than 12.5 or more
volts. At 13+V it don't matter what state the plugs are in, it works.
Interesting. Although it has to be said that it appears much more
sensitive to the height of the fuel supply than anything.

The odd side is what I found when I got inside the carbs and started
measuring and comparing my two sets. How that bike and the donor ran so
reliably I really don't know. Stretched and bent slider return springs,
every float a different and wildly incorrect height, shit in every
passageway, 3 out of the four pilot screws at least one turn too far out
(I cannot be confident about the fourth one though as it seems to be
welded in place and I can't move it, yet), the spacers that go on top of
the needle fitted underneath and raising the needle height an effective
two notches. In general it appears that both sets of carbs have been
got at, for whatever reason and that rather than put right, the bike has
been made to run. And the sad part is that both bikes have a fair bit of
dealer service history and if you add that to the various bodges I have
found elsewhere it is very poor testament to dealer servicing.

Still my pot is half full and things are progressing nicely and I should
be able, if I want, to be back on the road tomorrow.

 

Electrics innit - what the mechanic who used to service my Alfa called
'magic'.

Those diagnostics tend to suggest that it might actually be an
inductive system, or as I said earlier you just need to spin everything
over more quickly if the plugs are not perfect.

Carburation is last in the classic list of reasons for an petrol IC
engine not to run:
compression, ignition, carburation.

As you said about putting the K&Ns on - if it is nearly right it will
still run.

Ignition is less tolerant. On the 604 nordie I found going a grade
softer on the plug helped starting a lot - cooking the plug is not an
issue generally when hill climbing.

I must have tempted providence pontificating on CDI and the like, as
the the fucking French electrics on the Tart are posing a particularly
irksome conundrum after a ride to the Trofeo Rosso today. See separate
post coming soon.

 

wrote

Well yes but the inductive bit is really only creating a timing/trigger
pulse and not actually supplying power to the bit that generates the
spark and...

It runs quite well on one cylinder with the other plug taken out to
lighten the load to test the spin speed effects. I did this and noticed
what happened and pronounce your idea as flaky at best.

I am not convinced it is wholly or even mostly electrix. I feel they
have just been slightly contributory.

It is a combination of bits being bodged for a particular purpose and I
have been in there setting things back to factory standard and it has
spoilt some of the effects of the bodges. Still, we are at the point
where the vacuum gauges come out for the fine fettling that is happening
tomorrow so the end of the beginning is in sight and then I start the
quest for the "right size jets."

 

Well, perhaps that's not surprising; the subject of carbon blacks (or
soot) is a highly complex one, there are thousands of different types
that are commercially available that have all sorts of properties,
some of which can be quite highly conductive.

What I suspect is happening is that the quantity and quality of the
soot on the plugs is quite variable due to the carburation, and the
ignition system can burn some off such that the engine fire up with a
bit of a cough and splutter, and some are so conductive, there's a
short to earth that the current from the spark can't burn off.

It sounds like you've got an exciting time ahead of very carefully
fettling the carburettors!

Good luck! Let us know how things are going.

 

Kim Bolton wrote

Hey, there is nothing variable about the quality of my soot. Good
British soot it is, none of your cheap work for bugger all and sleep on
the streets immigrant soot like some would have you believe.

Careful?

 

OK, OK, I didn't mean to impugn the quality of your soot. I'm sure
it's fine soot, and I wouldn't like to blacken your reputation in this
field.

All things are relative.....;-)