I Have no luck with bike shops, What is there Problem?

I have absolutely no luck in getting my bike fixed properly at any
bike shops. Honda Cb 650 Custom in restoration mode and just too many
bills to descibe where so much has gone wrong. Ok it is an old bike
but when you write down exactly what it is you want done at you go to
pick your bike up and pay them for the good $ they want I always find
a few things they "forgot to do"
Example: Last fall a motorcycle shop in Misssion was givin the order
to replace the rings, hone cylinder bores, check specs od course
before hand, and report any problems, they also wer to do the valve
stem seals, lapp the valves, and also report any problems back to me.
I also asked them to replace a few front fork rubber suspension mounts
and that was it.
After driving the 50 miles twice to get my bike that was supposedly
ready, they forgot the rubber seals and had to drive back the 3rd
time. The bike leaked on the head before I took it to them and it
still leaks today. I am returning to Mission tomorrow to get them to
hopefully get the leak fixed in the Valve body gasket, and who knows
where else. Hope that goes better than all others.
I also last week Fri had bike in to another shop locally 4km away and
asked for 3 things to get done. 1 replace the header with all new
studs and nuts. 2 install a new rear tire and check the brakes while
there. 3- re-jet as needed or move up the needles to make this bike
run right with the individual K&Ns air filters and the 4 into 1
header, so I can run this bike without the choke on all the time. (it
was lean. After I paid the large bill, I got home and noticed they had
used all my old hardware on the exhaust and completely ignored that I
wanted all new studs and nuts on the exhaust system. They did not
chrge me for the studs and am also going back there tomorrow and see
if I have to pay for them......wow.....
Last time I went to a Honda dealer, and asked them to put new sprokets
and chain on they put on the wrong sproket on the front even though I
told them and wrote down a 17 tooth.
I think I have learned my lesson. In large letters I now will put on
the tank for the mechanic the wriiten work to be completed with little
boxes to check after completion. I also will now be asking if it is a
licenced mechanic working on my bike too...
Sad state of affairs at these bike shops, might as well do it myself.

 

Most shops, and especially dealers have little time or interest in vintage
machinery.

 

[large snip]

Exactly. If you are not a wealthy person, don't buy an old bike with
the intention of paying someone else to work on it. Most so-called bike
mechanics are not worthy of the name. Anything more complicated than
routine maintenance is beyond their skill set. Repairing or restoring
an old bike is quite different than working on a new bike, it requires
skills and knowledge that take years to acquire.

Anyone who is any good generally doesn't work at a dealership, they are
at an independent shop, have lots of customers obtained via word of mouth,
and charge what the market will bear.

It's cheaper and more fun to buy a new-ish used bike that doesn't need a
lot of fixing up. If your primary objective is to learn to work on your
own bike, more power to you. If you want a bargain, cash-wise, and don't
mind putting in lots of time and effort, again, owning an old bike *can*
be a good idea, if, and only if, you have the skills and knowledge and
time to make it work. It can also be a good way of spending far more
than the bike is worth, on parts and repairs.

I work with a guy (waves to you-know-who) who bought a 'bargain' 1980
GL1100 for $600. By the time he's finished, he will have spent about
twice that on parts, plus hundreds of hours of time and effort, and
it will end up being an unreliable and ugly bike, due to the butchery
its owners have subjected it to. I spent $1500 on my '86 GL1200A and
it already is, before investing any time or money on it, an order
of magnitude nicer than what he will end up with. If I had spent
another $500 I could have had something that needed a lot less work.
Another $1000, and it would need almost no work at all, but I confess
to a weakness for bringing neglected bikes back to life.

 

That's no great revelation, Tim. The mechanics working in the typical
motorcycle emporium that wants to sell you a *new bike* are interested
in only one thing, getting the work into the shop and out of the shop
quickly so they can maximize their paycheck...

Kevin Cameron mentioned the problem with "procedure-trained" mechanics
VS mechanics who really had a talent for understanding machinery. There
are hundreds of procedure-trained mechanics for every mechanic that
really knows his shit...

MC shop mechanics are typically procedure-trained, they how to change
the oil and filter, bleed the brakes, change tires, chains, sprockets,
etc. They even know how to adjust the valves, but they aren't going to
want to actually *do* that procedure if the bike in question is a
modern plastic-wrapped sportbike, where the radiator and ignition coils
have to be removed and the camshafts have to come out to change just
*one* shim, since only one valve is out of spec...

No, shop mechanics aren't going to want to get into all that, they
won't make money off of a job like that. Forced into accepting a valve
adjustment, mechanics have been known to start the engine, warm it up,
and ask the shop boss to come over and *listen* to the engine and say
that the valves sound just fine to him. Then the mechanic charges the
customer for the valve adjustment anyway!

bike too...

ROFLMAO! Of course the mechanics have whatever state licenses are
required to work on customer's machines. They probably have a whole
wall full of certificates behind their tool box in their work space.
They've been to various distributor's tech schools and seminars and
they have pieces of paper to prove it...

That's what the C and D average high school student winds up with after
he graduates with his peers. He goes to trade school, gets a piece of
paper that says he's proficient at some trade, but such tradesmen can
move around now, they don't have to stay in one shop and build a
reputation. There's a steady flow of mediochre motorcycle mechanics
from dealership to dealership, and shop to shop, and the half-assed
mechanics manage to not only survive, they actually prosper...

That's what restoration of old bikes is all about. Do-it-yourself, in
your own garage, during the off-season. If you want a reliable MC for
transportation, buy a new one, and trade in your old one every few
years. That way, you can avoid hassles with mechanics who can afford to
buy new bikes all the time because they are making a good living by
just doing the minimum absolutely-required maintenance procedures on
other customers' relatively new bikes...

 

Tim C wrote:

Tim,
how long does it take to remove a steel stud screwed into an aluminum head
after it's been through 10,000 heat cycles and 20+ years of road grime?
Multiply that by eight. Add 200% for the two studs that break. Mulitply
that by $1.00 a minute. How much are you willing to pay? How loud are you
going to squawk when you find out it costs more for the stud replacement
than the header?
Those are the questions being asked by the service manager.

 

This is nothing new. Read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" if
you want a dissertation on this (and many other) motorcycle and life
experiences. He wrote the book in the mid-70's, but not much ever changes
when it comes to human nature.

 

Charlie,
When I requested that the studs and nuts be replaced it was because
the nuts had bottomed out and were rusted and when you unscrewed the
nut, the whole stud came with the nut. It was not a matter that the
studs were going to break, it was a matter that the studs were going
to vibrate out or loosen. The shop not only had used my old hardware
of studs and nut in the re-installation, they never used lock-tite, as
today once again, each stud came loose and off when you loosened
the nuts. Today a new set of studs were installed with lock-tite and
then new nuts went on..finally the way it should be.
Tim C,

 

When the shop installed the header they also re-used the copper rings.
They were just replaced less than 600km ago when the top end was done.
That being said, I agree it would have been better to replace them,
but..once again I left it up to the shop if they neeed them, replace
them. It all works no leaks now and the header sounds great. And
yesterday I had the bike back out to Mission B.C. to fix the valve
body oil leak. We had to take the valve body off and they used some
sort of 114 gasket compound and reinstalled the valve body. It now
does not leak, and finally it is starting to feel and look like a job
well done. The cleaning process can now begin again on the head to
remove all traces of oil and get them shining.
Next up on this bike....installing a steel briaded brake cable for the
single disc, and then onto the forks, measure the spring replace the
oil, and or springs and spacers if necessary...wow..never ending.
Tim.

 

Ah,
more details cast a different light. I was going on the assumption you
had the typical corrosion nightmare.