Hitting close to home.

Yeah. Looking at the photo again, I'd say Brussels Sprouts or Kale,
from the height and color. No real berm, just a curving continuation
of the crown down to the level of the fields. Running off on a Harley
would give you an exciting ride if you kept turning away from the
road, with soft ground bringing you to a stop if you were able to stay
upright. Any attempt to maneuver any other way would probably result
in high-siding. I don't believe Dave had any dirtbike experience to
help him out there.

Al Moore
DoD 734

 

I drove down that way today. where there isn't a berm, there's a ditch
not evident in that newspaper photo. I didn't see exactly where the
accident happened (I was driving a van in rather heavy traffic, and had
other things on my mind)

 

Oh, yes, running off the road would definitely be risky in itself,
unpleasant at best. Just marginally better than running head-on into
an out-of-control car.

I don't know if Dave even had time for such a maneuver. He may even
have been trying it at the moment of impact, for all I know...

Al Moore
DoD 734

 

no doubt correct. a dirt rider though would have gone off onto the
shoulder under power with the bike laid over a little and the back end loose
(a slight power slide)...then low sided it on purpose when he hit the
produce...or would have gone off into the dirt and immediately low sided it
if poles or culverts loomed.

A street rider would have tried to keep the bike up which offers less
control in a case like that.

Phil Scott

 

in the case of a ditch a dirt rider would have low sided it as soon as he
hit the shoulder.

Phil Scott

 

Look...you are a nice guy...I dont want to be argumentive here. But the
notion that putting it down in the dirt is close to as bad as running head
on into a car isnt correct at all.... low siding a HD at 50 mph is something
dirt riders do very often just for fun at a camp out...truly its not big
deal at all if you know how to do it...you will walk away without a scratch
unless you hit something...

There is a strategy to it though, you have to counter steer it to the locks
and slam the bike down forcefully while you let the low side leg drag back
away from the falling bike and hold the bars so the front wheel stays
*tipped up (if you dont the bike will flip and that can indeed be
dangerous)... you dig the low side bar end into the dirt and keep your high
side foot on the peg.

You can save your life by being willing to low side the bike. A strategy
street riders never see or hear of, but it is a two or three time per day
occurance with those practicing dirt riding, especially flat track....
injuries are very rare doing that under 60 or maybe 80 mph on smooth
dirt.... the bike stops pretty fast that way... over 70 or 80 it can be
harrier...you can go to a mile flat track race with speeds at 130 mph and
usually one or two riders loose it in a turn that way....mostly they walk
away sometimes without even a scratch.... if they loose thier grip on the
bars though and dont keep the front wheel tipped up, and the bike high
sides...that can be bad.

A person can practice these moves on a bicyle, just run it off onto the
grass and throw it down.



Phil Scott

 

"NZMSC" wrote in message

They aren't standard steps. They differ from situation to situation

In other words, in most crashes several steps of varying types involved in the
crash.

Look at the one we are talking about here:
Step 1. The Honda driver pulls out in the face of oncoming traffic. (Honda
driver fault)
Step 2. That Honda driver decides to get back into line at a bad spot. (Honda
driver fault)
Step 3. The Honda clips the Lexus. (Both Lexus and Honda drivers at fault.)
Step 4. The Honda bounces into the motorcycle.
Step 5. The Honda crashes into the truck, is split in half *yet all the
occupants get relatively minor injuries*!!!!!

Five steps.

Now, I'm not in a position to say that David could have done anything to save
himself but *if* he could have seen and reacted when that Honda started on Step
,1 he may well have been able to avoid being involved in the crash.

On the other hand, sometimes Lady Luck just plays us a bad hand of cards...

 

Well, the Honda had been additionally slowed by the head-on collison
with the Harley. Those people may owe their lives to the fact that
Dave was unable to avoid them.

Al Moore
DoD 734

 

cards...


Id take a different approach to defining the 5 steps of accident avoidance.

1. being in a position to notice the road ahead. (seeing ahead of the
vehicle you are following)
2. Seeing the car pull out to pass in a bad spot or other potential hazard.
3. positioning ones bike away from potential disaster and near an escape
route (extreme right of lane in that case)
4. being alert for an ensuing problem
5. pre planned what to do (head for the shoulder/ field)


Phil Scott

 

We are obviously at cross-communication here.

I am not talking about five steps of crash avoidance.

What I am saying is that in most crashes there is more than just a mistake and a
crash. There is usually a number of cumulative mistakes that ultimately lead to
a crash. This means that, if the sequence of mistakes is broken, the crash can
be avoided.

 

I thnk that happens everywhere from time to time. Just last
night, I was following someone on a rural county two lane
doing 45 in a 55. So, I pulled out to pass, and whne it seemed
like it was taking a while to get by, I looked down at my speedo
and I'm doing 65, but the car I'm passing is now matching my
speed. Then the moron turns on the high beams when I complete
the pass.

--

http://911truth.org/
http://globalresearch.ca/


"I think this is the worst government the US has ever
had in its more than 200 years of history. It has
engaged in extraordinarily irresponsible policies not
only in foreign policy and economics but also in social
and environmental policy.....This is not normal government
policy. Now is the time for people to engage in civil
disobedience. I think it's time to protest - as much as
possible....What we have here is a form of looting."
- George A. Akerlof, 2001 Nobel prize laureate economist

"One of the things we don't want to do is destroy the
infrastructure in Iraq because in a few days we're going
to own that country," - Tom Brokaw

Cost of probing Bill Clinton's sex life: $65 million.
Cost of probing the Columbia shuttle disaster: $50 million.*
Funds assigned to independent Sept. 11 panel: $3 million.**


http://regulareverydaypeople.com/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.commondreams.org/
http://counterpunch.org/

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

 

He should have been able to see, at the very least, the initial attempted
pass and adjusted his speed and position accordingly... That is unless,
of course, he was riding in a position which seems to be quite common
with some people. That being to the far edge of the road where they
cannot see the oncoming traffic... (right side of the right lane, for
example)

 

Opps! Damn my hair trigger... Yah... What you said...

 

You are exactly correct..

Phil Scott

 

IIRC, this accident happened in thick fog with poor visiblity.

 

In that case the woman who attempted a pass in those condition will be
doing some serious jail time. Thick fog though with low visibilty doesnt
comport well with going very fast...maybe the fog wasnt that bad

Phil Scott

 

IIRC, this accident happened in thick fog with poor visiblity.

I don't recall what time the accident was, but usually the fog there
is pretty much negligable after 6am. The big problem for southbound
traffic is driving straight into the @#*$ sun. But really, this
particular section of 1 is in no way a safe place for anyone to pass.
Even where the line is dotted, it's still pretty dicey in a.m. traffic
unless you're operating something very small & fast, as she found out.

I do this route every day, between SCruz & M'rey, and given the ample
passing opportunities to the north and south of this crummy section
of road, it's not even worth trying in thick traffic. Unfortunately,
colossal stupidity like this is rarely seriously punished, and since
none of the chilllrunnn were injured, she'll probably get off even
easier than the Dodge Ram incident.

 

I went back and read the two web stories on this... my bad, nothing was
said about bad visibility. Maybe I heard something on the radio, but I
dunno.

That stretch of 1 is due north/south, and the driver was heading north, so
it wasn't sun in her eyes either.

further, the Herald story says she went to pass the Lexus, saw oncoming
headlights, and pulled back in and her BACK hit the FRONT of the lexus...
meaning, she was mostly PAST the lex', but pulled in too soon. maybe the
lexus did speed up some.

The accident happened when Rosaura Luna, traveling north on
Highway 1, tried to pass a Lexus sedan on the two-lane road, the
California Highway Patrol said.

She saw the headlights of a car coming toward her and veered back
into the northbound lane, the CHP reported, but lost control of
her car. The back end of her car hit the front end of the Lexus,
and she swerved into oncoming traffic.

She hit Berridge's motorcycle, and then a truck behind the motorcycle
smashed into the Honda, the CHP reported.

a later story in the Pajaronian stated...

...it appears that everything started when the driver of the Honda
attempted to pass another car while heading northbound on Highway
1 just before Jensen Road," said Rich Richards, CHP spokesperson
for Monterey County. "They crossed over the double-yellow line to
pass, but realized that there was oncoming traffic and swerved
back into the northbound lane."

At that point, the 1993 Honda, driven by 36-year-old Rosaura Luna
of Seaside, apparently struck a northbound traveling Lexus, which
flew off the road and rolled, crashing into a steep embankment.
The driver of the 1990 Lexus ES250 was later identified as Nuong
Thi Ngyuen, 38, of Marina.

"The Honda then appears to have veered back into the southbound
lane where it crashed head-on into a motorcyclist, who died
instantly at the scene," Richards said.

A red "Soft-tail" 1991 Harley Davidson motorcycle with major
damage was thrown off the side of the road by the impact. The
driver, David Berridge of Sunnyvale, ended up in the center of
the road, his helmet still strapped to his head.

Remarkably, the crash didn't end there. The Honda continued on
into oncoming traffic where it careened into a 3-axle, 18-foot
flatbed Ford truck. The force of the final crash split the Honda
in half, hurling the front end off the pavement into an
agriculture field. The truck, driven by Carlos Morga, had the
lettering Greenfield Turf on its door.


X marks the area described...
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=10&n=4079215&e=609543&size=s&datum=nad83&layer=DRG25

 

There was some fog. They couldn't land the "life-flight" helicopter at
the scene. I don't recall the fog there ever being very severe -- not
like Tule fogs in the central valley, for instance.

Even later in the day, there were low clouds. The sun would not have
been a factor for anyone.

<snip>

Al Moore
DoD 734