Here's Another

Tijuana .. 1988.. I'd rented an apartment in the border town for convenience
for my frequent visits ..

Every Sunday morning, a small group would gather on Revolution Blvd. and
Seventh St. A little patio type cafe was on that corner and it was a
perfect place for us to eat breakfast, drink gallons of coffee and visit,
while we "people watched"..

One of the border buses pulled alongside the curb and unloaded.. Amongst the
tourists getting off, there were four young fellows, obviously enjoying a
weekend pass from their military base..

They ambled up and down the street, looking for something interesting, and
then settled in on one of the dance cabarets across the street from us.. The
dance hall was on the second floor with shops underneath.. The walls were
mostly open ..

They were in there for a few short minutes when all hell broke loose..
chairs flying everywhere and the sounds of crashing tables could be heard
with all the cussing and screaming going on..

Police cars came from both directions .. Looked like a battalion of those
cops charged up those stairs..

Shortly, the guys that caused all the commotion came tumbling down the
stairs and were gathered up by the policemen who were waiting for them..

After they'd got everyone sorted out, the four miscreants lined up agains
the wall.. those policemen were questioning them, one of the guys hollered
something about his civil rights were being violated..

Clear as a bell, we could hear one of those cops explain to that guy.. "You
left your civil rights at my border, when you crossed it".. As he said this,
he cracked that guy up side the head with a nightstick that looked more like
a baseball bat.. knocking him to his knees..

Those fellows were loaded into the back seat of one patrol car and carted
away.. presumably to the Tijuana calaboose..

 

wrote another interesting Meh'e'co tale.
~One of the border buses pulled alongside the curb and unloaded..
Amongst the tourists getting off, there were four young fellows,
obviously enjoying a weekend pass from their military base..
They ambled up and down the street, looking for something interesting,
and then settled in on one of the dance cabarets across the street from
us.. The dance hall was on the second floor with shops underneath.. The
walls were mostly open ..
They were in there for a few short minutes when all hell broke loose..
chairs flying everywhere and the sounds of crashing tables could be
heard with all the cussing and screaming going on..
Police cars came from both directions .. Looked like a battalion of
those
cops charged up those stairs..
Shortly, the guys that caused all the commotion came tumbling down the
stairs and were gathered up by the policemen who were waiting for them..
After they'd got everyone sorted out, the four miscreants lined up
agains the wall.. those policemen were questioning them, one of the guys
hollered something about his civil rights were being violated..
Clear as a bell, we could hear one of those cops explain to that guy..
"You left your civil rights at my border, when you crossed it".. As he
said this, he cracked that guy up side the head with a nightstick that
looked more like a baseball bat.. knocking him to his knees..
Those fellows were loaded into the back seat of one patrol car and
carted away.. presumably to the Tijuana calaboose..


I 'm not sure this is good evidence to support the defense's case,
either, but, on the other hand it does represent how tuff those
Meh'e'can Policios are, and how quick they can assemble to take care of
folks that disturb the piece. So, it might help.
But, I will say this, I can see why, Wakko, and Mr. Kane are not the
least bit worried about being in Harms way, while in Mexico with you.
You are a great Tour Guide, because of your many experiences in that
Country. (grin) _bjay_

 

Still harping on the juvenile "case" horseshit, huh .. Waco, Morgan Kane nor
me have described that country in the terms that your cyber friendly has
been trying to palm off on this newsgroup.. Your asinine attempts to involve
them in this infantile crap is ridiculous.. Mexico is a place with it's own
warts.. it sure don't need any of the warts that you nor Jerry could inflict
on it.. I've seen those warts, first hand and sure don't need to surf the
internet for information about that country.. The usenet "facts" that Jerry
is trying to use for persuasion to discredit the ride reports that we
brought back with us is a load of shit.. The facts are on the ground in that
country.. Want to find out what they are.. then get off your ass and go take
a look.. You don't have to take my word for anything.. Neither do you have
to accept the "facts" that are being blown at you by your cyber friendly..
That damned fool would be laughed out of Mexico..

 

Jesus Christ. Just because YOU don't come to harm in your travels
thru Mexico doesn't mean that OTHER folks don't occasionally.
Statistics of crimes against foreign visitors collected by state
agencies - both U.S. AND Mexican - are not "usenet shit," they are
simply facts. That they don't describe YOUR experiences in Mexico
doesn't discredit them. Hell, your own descriptions of other American
visitors constantly getting into trouble with Mexican authorities or
bandits posing as Mexican authorities, or the fact that one of your own
party carried a weapon into the country and might very well - without
your own intervention - have suffered difficulties as a result of it,
supports the contention that it takes more knowledge of the country,
its language, and its culture to consistently traverse it safely
outside the well worn paths of the known Tourist areas. You yourself
talk about spending 50 years traveling in that country. That alone
makes you vastly more prepared than any normal U.S. tourist. Not to
mention the fact that you have family in that country to teach you how
to interact with the locals.

Shit, given the statistics gathered, and the known difficulties
American visitors to that country encounter (numerous instances of
which have been supplied by none other than yourself) you really ought
to consider setting up a motorcycle touring company and leading rides
down there. You could continue to enjoy the country, make a little
money on the side, and educate American motorcyclists who are intrigued
by the country but who are reluctant (or even downright scared) to
travel off the beaten path on their own. Plus, think of the goodwill
that would be generated on both sides of the border. Talk about your
"win-win" situations!

 

Bjay,Still harping on the juvenile "case" horseshit, huh .. Waco, Morgan
Kane nor me have described that country in the terms that your cyber
friendly has been trying to palm off on this newsgroup.. Your asinine
attempts to involve them in this infantile crap is ridiculous.. Mexico
is a place with it's own warts.. it sure don't need any of the warts
that you nor Jerry could inflict on it.. I've seen those warts, first
hand and sure don't need to surf the internet for information about that
country.. The usenet "facts" that Jerry is trying to use for persuasion
to discredit the ride reports that we brought back with us is a load of
shit.. The facts are on the ground in that country.. Want to find out
what they are.. then get off your ass and go take a look.. You don't
have to take my word for anything.. Neither do you have to accept the
"facts" that are being blown at you by your cyber friendly.. That damned
fool would be laughed out of Mexico..



I am not taking sides, if you don't know that, then you havent read all
my responses to Jerry, or: You forgot the content of those responses.
Also, you seem to have forgotten how I agreed with some of your Mexico
stuff, two weeks back.
You also may not remember what I've said about ''taking a trip'' to that
country.
Reminder: I have no interest in traveling that far south, (grin).
I read Wakkos Mexico trip report, and it was interesting and very
positive, you may not remember me posting to it either.
Same to what Mr. Kane said about yall's fun time, down there, and some
of the incidents that happended, and stuff.
You may not remember this, either.
HTH_bjay_

 

LOL... What you are seeing on this newsgroup is a clash of personalities
that go much deeper than any ride report that has generated these
discussions..

You are absolutely right.. many Americans go into that country without being
prepared to have an enjoyable and pleasant experience, there.. They take
prejudices and some perceived arrogance with them.. That is a surefire
formula for disaster..

Certainly there are some unfavorable statistics .. many have merit.. some
are nothing more than people who'd go to a foreign country and conduct
themselves in a manner which they'd never do, in their own communties.. When
they are called down for that conduct, the additional problems are quickly
brought to bear..

Mexico is a foreign country.. that border is the line that separates us..
When we cross that border, we are tcitly agreeing to abide by their laws,
customs and rules.. If we do not, those infractions will be handled by the
Mexicans and not always according to our own standards..

My consistent conclusions and comments have been to the effect that there
are many things wrong in that country.. I stand by that.. That also is no
excuse for some of the conduct that I've seen, by American tourists.. I will
expand on the horrors that I've personally witnessed.. I can also expand on
the appealing experiences that I've had in that country.. Since 1951, my
first visit to Mexico.. I have seen many things.. good and bad.. The good
things, far outweigh the bad..

All that being said... LOL.. I have no desire to be the goodwill ambassador
to Mexico.. The ride reports that were posted were not intended to make
statements to that effect, either.. Those ride reports were interpreted that
way, by one anonymous poster on this newsgroup and he used those ride
reports as a springboard to launch a ridiculous and incredible attack
against that country.. I challenged the "facts" that he presented, as his
evidence, asked about his own experiences in Mexico and the race has been
on, ever since..

I have no desire to become a "tour guide" to that country, nor do I believe
that I acted in that capacity.. We organized a good ride and my familiarity
with Mexico and knowing a number of people down there, I was privileged to
enjoy the company of these guys and ladies . It should also be known that
everyone on that ride could make any choice he wanted to see or ride
anywhere that struck his fancy.. Choices were made, which included the
return trip.. not dictated by me or anyone else..

The gun thing was a clear violation of their law.. and involved severe
penalties.. My "intervention" was mostly my ability to speak the language
well enough to convince those authorities that we were no threat to anyone
in Mexico.. The infraction against their law was not with the intent to
injure or damage.. That's all .. Each man and woman in that group was
scrutinized by those authorities and if any one of us gave the impression
that we were somehow not good people.. we would have been locked up, quick..
That isn't exactly "intervention" for my part.. that is only a desire not to
get locked up in Mexico.. myself..

I posted an announcement on this newsgroup.. of my intention to make that
trip.. Others on this newsgroup were interested in going.. Some were unable
to follow up, for various reasons.. Four of us finally made the run.. The
ensuing ride reports made by two of that party and responses by me, are what
has triggered this over extended discussion..

I'll be making another trip in July.. Based on some of the responses in
these discussions, I'd hesitate to offer anyone I don't know, to go with
me.. Regards

Bill Walker
Irving

 

Now that is a well thought out post. I enjoyed reading it.

I wouldn't think anyone could disagree that it might take some
preparation, care, awareness, and self reliance to successfully travel
through Mexico. Experience always helps.

 

And...you write like a certain person I know. Have we met, sir?

 

Entirely possible. In my riding career, I've met lots of great
folks.... you could very well be one of them, especially if you "get
around."

....ttfn

 

Well, if we have, I'm sure it was over BBQ.

 

Bjay,The usenet "facts" that Jerry is trying to use for persuasion to
discredit the ride reports that we brought back with us is a load of
shit.. The facts are on the ground in that country.. Want to find out
what they are.. then get off your ass and go take a look.. You don't
have to take my word for anything.. Neither do you have to accept the
"facts" that are being blown at you by your cyber friendly.. That damned
fool would be laughed out of Mexico..
_billWalker_


TC responds:
Bill, Jesus Christ.   Just because YOU don't come to harm in your
travels thru Mexico doesn't mean that OTHER folks don't occasionally.
Statistics of crimes against foreign visitors collected by state
agencies - both U.S. AND Mexican - are not "usenet shit," they are
simply facts. ~That they don't describe YOUR experiences in Mexico
doesn't discredit them. _Hell_, your own descriptions of other American
visitors constantly getting into trouble with Mexican authorities or
bandits posing as Mexican authorities, or the fact that one of your own
party carried a weapon into the country and might very well - without
your own intervention - have ~~suffered difficulties as a result of it,
supports the contention that it takes more knowledge of the country, its
language, and its culture to consistently traverse it safely outside the
well worn paths of the known Tourist areas. You yourself talk about
spending 50 years traveling in that country. That alone makes you vastly
more prepared than any normal U.S. tourist. Not to mention the fact that
you have family in that country to teach you how to interact with the
locals.
~~Shit, given the statistics gathered, and the known difficulties
American visitors to that country encounter (numerous instances of which
have been supplied by none other than yourself) you really ought to
consider setting up a motorcycle touring company and leading rides down
there.
~~You could continue to enjoy the country, make a little money on the
side, and educate American motorcyclists who are intrigued by the
country but who are reluctant (or even downright scared) to travel off
the beaten path on their own.   Plus, think of the goodwill that would
be generated on both sides of the border. Talk about your "win-win"
situations!
_TC_



WOW TC, buddy you really got excited with this response(!)
Apparantly, TC, you lost your
abitilty to read & refrain (usually), and pass this stuff by, this
time(!)
If I rode a Bike down there, I'd hire Bill, and Brian, now that would be
double for your money.