Have I done something really numpty?

Rode the ZZR into work on Friday and back home no problem. When I went to
give the eldest lad a spin on it 2 hours later the solenoid would chatter
but the starter motor wouldn't spin. Tried it with jump leads off the car
the next day and it started beautifully. Must be the battery I thought. Went
to Frazers, got new battery, charged it and put it in. Lo and behold, lots
of spinning engine but no ignition. It coughed a couple of times but
steadfastly refuses to start. In fact there's not even a cough now.

The dealer is coming to collect it for repair but is there something obvious
I'm missing? I can't see any loose wires, the battery is the right way
round - negative goes to earth. Definitely petrol getting through because I
can smell it. I haven't got the Haynes manual in the post yet so I 'm a bit
stuck.

--
Malc

Rusted and ropy.
Dog-eared old copy.
Vintage and classic,
or just plain Jurassic:
all words to describe me.

 

Choke?

 

Disturbed the coil connection when you removed/replaced the battery?
Steve

 

Immobiliser?

 

Is there one? If so how did I start it before?

--
Malc

Rusted and ropy.
Dog-eared old copy.
Vintage and classic,
or just plain Jurassic:
all words to describe me.

 

Nope. Tried it with and without choke. Tried it a day later so make sure I
hadn't flooded it.

 

Something like that seems favourite but without a manual I don't even know
how to get at the plugs let alone the coil. The battery it in a plastic box
under the saddle. It seems unlikely given that the wiring loom is fairly
well tied down, but something like that is obviously the answer.
--
Malc

Rusted and ropy.
Dog-eared old copy.
Vintage and classic,
or just plain Jurassic:
all words to describe me.

 

Wind the throttle wide open slowly before turning the key and hold it
there, make sure the choke is off, turn ignition on and hit the starter
button and hold it on until it starts.

 

Yes. On a ZZR600 it's called the side stand switch. IIRC they are very
temperamental and most people I knew[1] with one bypassed it.

[1] mid 90s when they were a worthy alternative to the CBR600

 

I thought it only cut the ignition, same as the kill switch

 

It does, and as soon as you move the clutch out when in 1st gear[1] it
cuts the engine if the sidestand is left down. You can start a ZZR1100
on the sidestand and wait for it to warm up a bit before moving off, in
fact I can't think of any bike that won't allow this. On most makes you
have to pull the clutch in while the starter is pressed, but not on
Kawasakis

[1] You can't select 2nd from a standstill on a ZZR1100 because of the
wonderful Kawasaki Positive Neutral Finder.

 

My BMW works in the same way. Wonder boy is wrong and the world still
spins.

What a pile of shit.

 

I think bikes that don't have this feature are lacking - it's a very
useful thing to have

 

Hence the use of a question mark rather than making it a statement
of fact. It is very easy to distub things you know.

 

Perhaps an 'extra' connection on the battery posts that has been missed
when fitting the battery? Nordwests have such a gotcha. A thin cable
that connects to the positive terminal in addition to the main cable.
Not usually a problem unless doing a rebuild etc. when it may get pushed
out of the way and forgotten when the time comes to hook up the battery
again. If it's not connected the starter will spin the motor, over but
there will be no spark. More easily diagnosed though because it's not
that difficult to get the plug out and check for a spark.

I'm also wondering about the possibility of a fuse that might have blown
as the jump leads were removed. As you say however, it's hard to think
of one that would only kill the ignition system.

In any case the odd cough suggests that there may have been a spark of
some kind, which suggests flooding. Lozzo's procedure is pretty much
what Voxan recommend in such eventuality, with the addition of slowly
closing the throttle while cranking it over with the choke off, until it
catches. But that's FI.

I really don't like bikes that you can't relatively easily check for a
spark on, even by pulling a plug cap off and using a spare plug.

<Looks at Voxan and crosses fingers>


--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

That was one of my thoughts. I think my Guzzi Quota takes the prize
with at least three three separate eyelets that connect to the
positive terminal and two on the negative - a braided strap and a loom
ground. And none of the positive ones is an extra feature or alarm -
they're all standard wiring.

On said Quota the bike was supplied with the loom ground floating, so
the indicator flash rate varied according to whether the headlight ws
on or not. I put this down to it being a Guzzi at the time; it was my
first Italian bike after all. I found out when I disconnected the
speedo drive to get at the instrument bulbs... and the headlight
stopped working.

Me neither.

 

I had PNF on the Drifter, and I think it's also on the Z200. If you
need to select gears other than 1st, it's easy enough to do it while
rolling the bike gently forward.

 

This was also the recommended technique for Beetles, especially when
that bloody auto-choke had its way. Or some numpty had been pumping
the throttle up and down with blithe disregard of the effect on the
accelerator pump. Clutch and throttle slowly to the floor, crank.

Indeed. I fondly recall the ease of diagnostics on old airhead
boxers: spark plug sat out there in the wind. Float bowls that could
be removed and replaced one-handed. And on how many fully-faired
touring bikes nowadays can one replace barrel, piston and cylinder
head without disturbing a single fairing panel?

 

Been there done that

 

Tried all combinations of choke in/out, throttle in/out. The battery
is under the seat so tank remained in place. There are no visible
loose connections to the battery. It started ok up until the incident
with the solenoid then after the battery replacement just coughed
weakly twice and then no sign of any ignition at all.

I did wonder about the sidestand switch but I'm loath to do anything
until the dealer comes out.