gp malaysia (spoiler)

After his Qatar DNF, Rossi was very focused to put things right, and
he did. Barros briefly lead after the start, but soon Rossi would
take control, and win comfortably, with only Biaggi able to follow
his pace somewhat.

The circuit in Kuala Lumpur is very special, where different
riding lines are equally fast. There was a truly great skirmish
between Biaggi and Barros. In two corners, they traded position
three times in rapid succession! Not due to rider error, but
simply due to equally fast riding lines. Great stuff!

Talking about Biaggi... he was doing very well. He was not merely
the only rider able to follow Rossi, he also had a very high top
speed on the straight: 318kmph, well above all the others.

The podium was for Rossi, Biaggi, Barros, with Nicky Hayden just
missing out on it. Due to a poor performance by Gibernau, Rossi
looks set to claim the championship at the next race. So it looks
like Rossi's gamble and Yamaha's investment will pay off handsomely.

Bram

 

Seems that Rossi make it this year too. Rossi is in front of Gibernau and
lead with 30 points, what is most probably sufficient for the remaining
races. Todays performance of Gibernau was not as usual, theoretical
Biaggi can make it for the 2nd place this year, what at least shows how
good Honda in conjunction with Biaggi is.

Henry

 

The big disapoinment of the day, without doubt. One have to questioning his
motivations and abilities when, as far as I could see, never even tried. he
kept his comfortable pace through the race and were nver even close to
challenge anyting. Least of all his own limits.

/MBE

 

I can agree with you there. None of the other honda teams had those problems
so it is avidable.

Here we go again. Sete's team couldn't set up his bike, that's the advantage
Rossi had.
The disadvantage was a massive 3-4 tenth slower pace over the two straights.
Maybe even more if they had timing at turn 1.

/MBE

 

alone?

That kind of information/charts is very common to day, even at national
level but then again, if you don't have the interest or ability you loose
out on a lot of information.

What we do know about Rossi is that he often use Q2 as race-test. Running
close to full race distance to see how things work. He did so on Saturday,
so the softer tire he used on Sunday were already tested, or the harder
medium compound were found harder than necessary. That's why he could use
that compound with confidence.

/MBE

 

Sete, Edwards, Biaggi have all complained about chatter. Haydon said
"Chatter's always there, If you're used to SBK, you ride round it" Of
the Michelin runners only Barros has not mentioned it.

 

Obviously him and Edwards screwed up something in setup and just could
not hang comfortably. You don't have to fall off the bike to screw up.
But everything has to be working very well to hang with the top guys
in MotoGP.

Again - racing is about consistency, and the presence of consistency
eliminates the possibility of someone succeeding based on constant
lucky breaks. Gibernau, Biaggi... both challengers were not able to
muster the consistency required to challenge Rossi to the end. Not to
mention the others who were nowhere close. Rossi has screwed up at
times, which I guess is to be expected on a new bike, and anyhow
infallible he isn't. However, he (& team)has been more consistent
overall. It is clear the other guys could all hang and even beat Rossi
when things were right - they just could not get things right often
enough and consistently enough.

Barring disaster, this just proves something we already knew: Rossi is
head and shoulders above the other guys right now. The search for a
challenger continues. I don't think the challenger will emerge from
the current ranks in MotoGP, though. They've had their best chance
this year while Rossi was on an unfamiliar bike.

....pablo

 

It's always the same. If you win a lot, you get the good stuff. If you
get the good stuff, you win a lot.

Chatter is strange. Somewhere in the system there's an undamped spring.
The tyre companies often find themselves having to introduce damping
into the system to try and cure what may well be coming from somewhere
else. What's been particularly weird right now is people like Biaggi
(and not him alone) saying that the grippier, softer tyres (including
qualifiers) give more grip but introduce more chatter so you can't use
the grip. If the fundamental problem is chassis stiffness this might
well show up very differently in the Honda vs the Yamaha vs the others.
And it might also not show up with a second string tester on some
private test track in Japan simply because they weren't pushing hard
enough.[1]

Right now I think this is at least partly due to all that "Tuned Flex"
bollocks that Honda seems obsessed with. But then Yamaha were messing
around with twin shocks and dampers attached to non-moving parts of the
frame last year, so maybe they're all infected with it.

[1]Which reminds me. Who does private testing for Honda and Yamaha?
Presumably Ukawa and Ito for Honda. Who is it for Yamaha? I find it
interesting that a gig as test driver in F1 cars is much sought after as
it pays well and is a natural route into a full drive. In MotoGP if
you're good enough to race, you want to race, no matter where. And if
you're not good enough to race, then you can't help. In fact, if you
can't get within a second of pole you can't help a top team. So to a
very real extent the final stage of development has to be done in the
off season testing and the few days during the season.

 

What that sounds like is: If Rossi stayed with Honda they wouldn't bother to
develop a better tire.
Or are you saying that Michelin haven't worked with Honda to solve the
chatter problem?
None sound very convincing.

/MBE

 

Ok, I haven't heard the interviews afterwards but still the basic problem
for that race remains: Only Telefonica had real problems with the pace, and
they had the most to prove.
Used to SBK? Edwards?

I do remember Hayden mentioning someting about riding American Super Sport
where the chatter was an inherent property of the standard bikes.

 

Eh, that is allways present isn't it? I mean, everything flex, it's just a
matter of how much at what forces introduced. I guess part of the problem is
if the flex is strong enough to upset the tire or not.

Isn't flex and damping an important part of the 16.5 wheel success. Higher
side walls give more flex.

It would surprise me if it didn't show up differently at each individual
bike.

Doesn't have to be the frame, could just as well be a combination of
suspension components, frame, tires and settings.

Sounds strange to me. The difference between Hondas test guys and racers
should be marginal, the difference is not about lean angle, entry speed or
power, but more about being able to be there, close to the edge, every time
lap after lap.

Look more like they have to much (bad) input from too many angels. Messy.

Just like Yamaha last year.



/MBE

 

I guess that Tamada had also big trouble with his set-up.
Actually he completly miss his week-end. He was first in QP1, spent almost
the full QP2 trying to find the good set-up with the race tires, went with
the qualifying tire in the last 5mn but made 2 successive errors so he was
the only one not improving.
Bad race start, was 11 at the first lap and unable to match the times of the
leaders, except in the penultimate lap to catch Capi.
On the opposite Nakano stayed the whole race with him, showing that the
Bridge was working well as I don't think the Kawi is at the level of the
RCV211.
But I still think Tamada is one of the future riders able to challenge
Rossi.

 

Barring disaster, this just proves something we already knew: Rossi is

Cue Mark to tell us all how it's all an illusion... )
tim

 

So far, very good. Absolutely part of Rossi’s success were the timing. Two
very boring championships needed a change, and Rossi were the obvious choice
for any team. BTW, did his nationality matter? Well yes it does, but let me
ask the question another way: Looking back at his achievements from 125 and
250, add his personality and charisma, what could stop him?

I'm not sure what you mean here.

Now we start to make up stories. Griper rear is what _everyone_ has been
screaming for. Besides Rossi were very busy sorting out his own bike. Your
story sounds more lake a Powers/Rossi/Michelin plot, that's more far fetched
than ... no I'll better not warp this into a politics discussion

Did they?

Or maybe the best way to crush the threat is to beat them on otherwise equal
equipment? Doesn't that sound a lot better? I sure does to me.

It sure isn't but drop the powers thing, there is far too much paranoia an
delusions "over there" already



/MBE

 

And I tought the general view was that those guys got it all in their hands.
Of those only Biaggi were close, but he still lack the charisma, and he
didn't move at that fortunate time as Rossi did. I still think the
natioality played very little role when Honda wanted Rossi.

Aha, but stil the only fairytale we see is you writing at this moment.

Possible but very unlikely.

Sounds like bs to me. Well, not the monopoly thing but Michelin/Honda/GP
realtionship. There is no secret that Japanese companies has a bias towards
their own contry, as we see in their selection of riders. Why shouldn't that
be true for tires as well? I would suspect michelin being more worried
losing honda completly in MotoGP rather than sending them "messages" that if
they don't behave maichelin won't develop tires for them. Honda moving to B
with the right combination of riders (somehow moving Rossi out of the
picture) would have an even harder impact than Ferarri in F1.
Now, IMNSHO Honda telling Michelin that they better come up with a tire that
works better for their bikes or.... are quite a bit more likly corporate
blackmail stuff.

/MBE

 

It doesn't look to me that it has been hard for Hayden. He just said that he
had contact with Yamaha and he immediately got his ride in the factory Honda
along side Rossi.
Unfortunately for Edwards who was doing the same in the same time.
BTW they were both rated for what they did on the RC51.
Wasn't this bike quite superior to the other machines? We can ask the
question...

 

I'm up for this.

Let's say an Australian had entered 125cc at 17[1]. He won a race or
two, got pole, podiums and fastest laps in his first year. In the second
year he ran away with the championship. He then moved to 250 at 19[1],
and repeated the whole thing. Won races, poles and podiums in the first
year and ran away with the championship in the second. Now he goes after
a 500 ride at 21[1]. He has a good manager and has been turning heads
and making a world name for himself. He's got a reputation for being
able to set up a bike and to still win races when the set up isn't
right. He's been cultivating Burgess while on the way up. He's really
never put a foot wrong so far. And he's been using his reputation to
bring in sponsors and to generate world press. Meanwhile Honda then find
themselves with no lead rider for their 500.

Who's to say that he wouldn't have got a full factory setup *AND*
complete control of the team setup.

Then in his first year of 500 he wins races and runs the championship
down to the last race finishing 2nd. Hardly surprising then that Honda
keep him on and he runs away with the championship in the second year.
Then there's the switch to 4 strokes and he works hard on turning the 4
stroke from a good bike into a race winner. And he turns that into 2
more championships. While all this goes on he pays his dues at Honda by
twice doing the Suzuka 8 hours and winning it the second time.

So all that is only possible if you're Italian, and not Spanish or
Japanese, or American, or Australian, or British? At what point would
you get stuck because of your nationality and fail to bargain your
achievements so far into the environment to be able to do the next bit?

uh-huh.

[1]Did I get the ages wrong? Maybe he was a year younger.

 

Which is one point. So Rossi's only the best we've ever seen because he
was born with a silver con-rod in his mouth in the country that worships
conrods. I won't argue against that getting him a decent ride in the
Italian 125 championship or his first year in 125. But everything after
that is his doing.

Italy and Spain has a huge teen and pre-teen road racing scene. On
mini-motos, 50s, 80s, 125s and culminating in the sort of project that
Puig has put on to find 125 racers and has resulted in Danny Pedrosa. In
the UK we've tried to do this but never quite worked out how. However
the CB500 cup, Scooter cup, R6 cup have produced people like Toseland,
Haslam, Tommy Hill. What we've never had is the ability to get these
kids who show potential into 125 or 250 on a decent ride. This is why
Rob Mac is giving the winner of the R6 Cup an automatic Virgin Yamaha
ride and why he's got last year's and this year's winners in next year's
team.

The point of the whole scenario though is not just that Rossi got the
initial break out of the scene which got him a decent 125 ride but that
he's used it every step of the way. And with hardly a mis-step. You seem
to argue that Rossi isn't that great really because he's always had the
best machinery and particularly in 250 which gave him the launch pad
into 500. I'd argue that the Aprilia 250 has always been a fickle beast
and it's easy to waste it's potential. Look at Poggiali, even Melandri
had real trouble with it. And the Hondas and Yamahas from 5 years ago
till now really weren't that bad. Look at Kato, Jacques, Nakano.

I was talking about Rossi. I see we're back to talking about the AMA.

Well now the AMA has dumped 250 and 125 and is concentrating purely on
production based bikes, its pretty obvious that route is cut off for
good.

Hayden. Leveraged an exceptional AMA championship
Edwards. Bloody mindedness
Roberts. His dad.
Roberts. His dad.
Hopkins. Got a chance on a no hope team and took it.

I think the interesting one is Hopkins and going way back Edwards. Both
took a chance and came to Europe. There's a whole bunch of young riders
who could get on their bike, go to Europe and get a ride. It might mean
scrapping around in a national championship, or (god forbid) in the 2nd
division of WSB or 600WSS. But if you don't get out there, nobody will
see you and nobody in GP will see you. Because the rest of the world
doesn't give a damn about AMA racing. Just as they don't give a damn for
the Australian national championships. They wouldn't give a damn for BSB
either except that it's on their door step. If they stay in AMA, they
may well turn it into a very comfortable living. They may even be the
next Mat Mladin. But the best they can hope for is to be the big fish in
the small pool. If that's what they want, then fine.

 

Because you consistently downplay Rossi's abilities. And you
consistently twist people's words in order to find a way of disagreeing.
And you consistently maintain that "it's not fair" because of some
bizarre conspiracy theory (That latest one about Michelin teaching Honda
a lesson is a humdinger even by your standards). And you consistently
talk up the AMA and talk down everyone else.

And it winds me up. I shouldn't let it, but it does.

 

You can call it that if you want.

It's pretty unusual for anyone to get offers. Most people have to hustle
them, even ex-world champs.

Just signed or just about to sign for Ducati displacing Bayliss who has
got the sack.

Xaus. One podium. Obviously trying. Obviously doing the best of a bad
environment. Doesn't fall off much any more. Still young.

Melandri. Ex-World Champ. Some times fast. Had a podium.

Tamada. ex-National Champ. 2 Wins. Often beats other Hondas.

Why exactly should these guys not get a MotoGP ride? In comparison with
say, KrJr?