G'day Mat, err Mate..

Interesting. But I wonder if it matters enough to Yosh to take it to the
FIM.

 

Obviously not enough, but I think they really wanted to see one in a
bike, not a paper trail...

 

Well, they may have demanded one, but I sincerely doubt that they
actually wanted to see one...

 

Intersesting article, but I don't quite buy his analogy. For one
thing, with the possible DMG-MIC split, you could argue either way
about which one represents the IRL or CART!

Secondly, the author is counting far too much on the prestige of the
Daytona 200 to make his point. The Indy 200 is known world-wide even
among non-motorsports-fans. But even in the U.S., the typical reaction
I get to mention of the Daytona 200 is "they race motorcycles there,
too?" Remember when world-class riders from around the world used to
come to race Daytona? That was a long time ago. Now, with the race
having gone to 600cc FX bikes, the rest of the world does indeed view
it as the World's Biggest Club Race, to the limited extent to which
they're aware of it at all.

No, the cachet of the Daytona 200 is long gone as far as the rest of
the world, and the non-motorcycle-roadracing majority of the American
public, is concerned.

And it's worth noting that the final nail in the coffin, the change to
600/FX, was brought about at the request of the management of Daytona.
That's either irony or poetic justice, depending on your point of view

 

Be that as it may, Suzuki was unable to come up with any...

 

What was interesting to me was that Honda is one of the principles
driving a deal that not only they know from experience has very little
chance of success, but will also be very detrimental to MC racing(and
sales) here in the states. It's almost as if they haven't spent much
time thinkin' this deal through, but have been preoccupied trying to
wrest some kind of control back from DMG... (I firmly believe that is a
big waste of time)

 

What a load of regurgitated crap. If I remeber to do it when I get
back from Indy I'll post up the email I sent to RRW on this a couple
days ago (and no shock at all that Johnny U hasn't posted that). But,
just as the case was with open-wheel, what has happened here is that
an egomonster who must believe that he controls the only event that
matters in racing has decided that he will also completely control the
rest for the series that races there, shaping it to his desires. Part
of that is minimizing or eliminating the OEM influence, which of
course runs directly counter to their desires. If you believe what Rog
has said, they were contemplating doing this anyway, even before the
AMA firesale. So who's bugging out?

So what are the factories supposed to do, just bow down to what is a
fundamentally bad idea in the first place? What should Honda have done
back in 1996? George's concept was less-technical, cheaper, oval-only
racing, and just as today the only teams that supported him were ones
without much budget who were getting their asses kicked already.

So where was the place in that for Honda and everyone else who stayed
in CART? Where is it today in DSB? It's DMG who is going off on their
own, who are ruining racing, not the OEMs, and there doesn't really
seem to be any place in the DMG "vision" for them.

RRW should be pointing the finger at DMG and not the OEMs. But this
bit is entirely consistent with their behavior the last few weeks,
since JU's efforts to save racing came to nothing. Being a DMG guy,
it's now all about trashing the OEMs...

 

Sorry you feel that way, though it's not surprising..

You don't need to bother for me..

Umm, I think that's what most owners do, isn't it?

That's a good thing, right?

HUH? ISTR DMG offering everything they said they wanted, twice! Only to
have them change their minds again and again, DMG finally said enough
of this booshit and moved on and I think we all should too, that is, if
you're not bound in someway to a certain couple of OEM's.
Look, I'm far from saying everything is hunky-dory, but removing the
overwhelming influence the OEM's pose on racing can only be a good
thing and if some want to stay, all the better, but if any feel the
need to leave, sayofukinnara..

No, they should start a fire and leave, what wonderful outfits, molded
in the Sherman vane I assume..

They see racing as way to sell their stuff and feel they have to
control it and it's direction to serve that purpose. That you can't
come to terms with, or accept that very simple fact makes me wonder..

Why? Because they spent good money and are trying to resurrect US M/C
racing beyond the trivial?

I don't see them trashin' anyone, but from your head up OEM ass view
that's prolly what it looks like..(disturbing picture;-)
Anyway, this all just proves what I said years ago, the OEM's need
racing a hell of a lot more than racing needs them...

 

Well, it should't be, considering you're just restating what Gougis
wrote.

I know - it's not like you'd seriously consider anything that wasn't
heavily biased toward DMG...

Umm, no. The AMA didn't do that, and the other big championships only
do it on a limited basis, that mostly based on their commercial
interests. DMG is basically trashing the whole thing and replacing it
with their Daytona-centric "vision".

Wrong. As the biggest financial contributor to the series they have a
right to some say in what it is.

That's another RRW-spun load of crap and you know it. Why would anyone
reject "everything they wanted"?

Coulda fooled me...

but removing the

Says you. But there are huge holes in that statement. But if the OEMs
are so bad, why would an alternative series be so bad for racing? Let
the people decide, I say...

 

So, you'd like to see M/C racing here destroyed, or at the very least
shrunk even farther into obscurity so what can happen? The OEM's sell
more bikes? Less traffic on the tracks? Less people people in the
stands? No TV? Very few tracks? Hmm, I'm seeing a trend here, more for
them, less for us..

This is all besides the point anyway, as there isn't going to be any
series ran in opposition and if you don't believe it, read this.(and
weep)

http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34082
(Doncha' just hate it when a plan falls apart?)

So much for your MIC, and may it rest in peace...

 

Ah, no, that's what you want, that's what DMG is doing to racing as
far as I can tell - detail one definitive aspect to this thing so far
that one can embrace as growing racing.

so what can happen? The OEM's sell

I absolutely can't figure out why you are so against the OEMs actually
enhancing their sales through racing. What sponsor would ever get
involved in racing if it didn't increase their sales, who would get
involved at all if they couldn't make money at it?

Less traffic on the tracks? Less people people in the

Is that actually suppposed to make any sense? How would a MIC-fronted
series result in "more for them and less for us"?

You really grab onto any little tidbit that Ulrich chooses to publish,
don't you? There's no question that he's going to do anything that he
can to bury an alternative series, he's told me he thinks that's the
worst possible outcome. Of course he's already declared that his team
will be running in DSB next year, and he hasn't exactly declared that
the factories withdrawing from racing will be equally a disaster. So,
like, you, he may just fear competition, given that his team would be
one of the top ones if no OEMs show.

Anyway, Kawi announcing AMA contingencies next year hardly means much,
that whole progam as required by DMG hasn't been sorted out yet, I
don't think. A MIC series next year is unlikely anyway, and Kawi
didn't announce a DSB factory team...

 

Oops. Was there a race this weekend?

 

Just following your lead Dude..(kinda' suks, huh?)

Umm, it would be..

Kawasaki looks to be in and very likely Yamaha too and the only
disaster I see looming is the MIC thing, but I doubt it was ever
intended to fly in the first place, it was injected into this deal to
confound and confuse and nothing more, but that's been all a couple of
OEM's have done too, confound and confuse..

Nah, it wasn't much of an announcement, well, only a little over $900
grand anyway!..

Tell you what Mark, answer this, why are certain OEM's so dead set
against ASB, are they afraid to race heads-up on a level field with
independent teams? What's their big reason for not getting involved? If
I were making sportbikes I'd sure like a place I could race them
against all the others, so, what's their deal?

 

Another thought on this aspect. As I understand it, chamfering the oil
galleys is done to improve oil flow and to reduce potential damage to
the bearing surface. If so, isn't it likely that race prep of a trick
crank would include chamfering? Isn't the absence of that more likely
a sign that it's a stock crank and that this particular modification
would be a rules violation? If Suzuki had done the chamfering they
might well have improved performance and reduced the chances of being
ruled in violation of the rules, by actually breaking the rules...

 

Yeah, seemed unlikely to me. So Suzuki's defence would have to be a
change in manufacturing between 2006 and 2008.

It's over though, isn't it. All the revelations won't make a damn bit of
difference.

 

No, you're not. It totally obvious that RRW is taking every shot they
can at Suzuki and Honda these dabeys, because they are the leaders of
the breakaway movement. That assumedly is cause Ulrich is doing
everything he can to stop that from happening. Exactly what he does
want to see isn't entirely clear, but he really hasn't taken any shots
at DMG from the beginning, except on the racing in the rain safety
issue (and he'd lose all credibility if he hadn't), so the assumption
is that he's been in their camp all along. What we don't know is if
he cares if the factories show at all, or if he just don't want them
showing up elsewhere.

Anyway, since we know what he's doing, it's just too easy to link his
disengenuous posts (and stupid, too), they don't provide evidence of
anything.

Why? You don't seems to see much value in having the factories around,
and allowing them any input into the running of the series is
detrimental. You clearly believe that any series effectively run by or
for the factories will always be small-time. So why does it matter
that they have their own series, how is that going to hurt racing? Or
rather, how is that going to hurt DMG, since you consider racing and
DMG to be synonymous...

So because Kawasaki publishes an ad that lists all the series they're
paying '09 contingencies for and it includes the "AMA US Superbike
Championship" (will that even continue to exist?), they're in?
Kawasaki hasn't taken an official position on where they'll be racing
next year, nor have any of the Japanese OEMs, as I understand it, but
Kawasaki has said they want to race the other OEMs and they want to
race SBs. No surprise that they'd put this out there, even though it's
meaningless, and perhaps it's because it's meaningless - DMG has not
yet determined what their contingency requirements will be for
participants, I'm pretty sure. What they are telling racers is that
pay notable contingencies in a bunch of series.

As for Yamaha, they've said pretty much nothing to this point, so to
assume either way is foundationless.

Is that actually supposed to mean something? The OEMs got together and
said, "Hey, let's float this deal about another series fronted by MIC,
just to confound and confuse!"??

And that?

And if they don't homologate their bikes and pay the required
contingencies, they don't have to pay anything anyway!

Don't waste my time with your particular brand of stupidity...

What's their big reason for not getting involved? If

One would think that even you could figure that out by now. But
apparently not, so try these on for size:

1) Edmondson comes out of the box challenging the OEMs, and saying
their job isn't to sell motorcycles. In particular they went after
Suzuki from the start, suggesting their success is ruining racing.
2) They dump all of the existing classes and replace them on the
schedule with a mixed bike class that is poorly conceptualized, is
restricted by the dyno and scale, and that class appears to not favor
Japanese motorcycles. They also include their MOTO-ST class, which
obviously is biased against Japanese participation.
3) Their basic rules allow them to make changes at any time to
reestablish competitive balance. In other words, they will penalize
success, which must have made the factories wonder why they would
bother to try to win there. The rules also make it clear that it's
going to be a spec series, limiting the developmental opportunities in
racing there.
4) They allow SB back in, but with onerous participation requirements
and no purse to attract non-factory teams, and state it has only a two-
year life expectancy from the start. It's clear that DMG has no use
for SB.
5) They immediately change that to a dyno-capped SS-type class as soon
as Yamaha voices any objection at all to DMG's SB (Literbike) concept
as too expensive.
6) That class stays, after a conversion to FIM SStock-spec, no matter
what is done with the SB class, showing that DMG will try to bleed off
participation from any SB class.
7) DMG makes it clear that they don't want to play second-fiddle at
the world championship rounds, which further limits the promotional
value of racing in their series.
8) No matter what they say, it's obvious that DSB will always be
treated as the feature class in their series.
9) According to Doylie, DMG has been going after Suzuki all year long
in tech, further verifying that DMG has no respect for, or perhaps no
place for, the Japanese factories.
10) The construction of the classes and Ducati's statements of support
serve to verify that they are cooperating with European factories and
value their participation, just as they did in MOTO-ST, quite the
opposite of the Japanese.

How's that for a start?

 

BTW, it's not clear if you're aware of this or not, but PD happens to
be Mladin's long-time crew chief and is the AMA's version of Jeremy
Burgess in just about every regard.

I agree that it's surprising to see such open candor there though I
see nothing in his statements that make me doubt them.

 

Sure I was, the only difference is I won't trash them next week like
you always do..

Sorta' like back when you were calling DMG racist's and rednecks?

Obviously you know as little about math as you do bike racing, so, I'll
help you out. 4 OEM teams at 2 riders apiece equals 8, throw in one
from Jordan(even though he won't be there) and you get 9, you call that
big-time?
Anyway, spinning as you must, I said OEM's have a place here, just not
one dictating terms..

Dude, your the guy with no foundation, not me..
http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34120

That's all Honda and 'Zuki had done up till today, now it looks like if
they can't control it they want to it destroyed. Great guys all, though
I wonder how long either Blank, or Harris are gonna' be around..
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=33607

You can't answer a direct question? Oh, that's right, you just start
with the name calling instead..

According to Doyle? Are you totally out of your mind?

I start a long day in about 4 hours, or I'd oblige your nonsense, maybe
some other time...

 

Right, because you're pretty sure Johnny U won't end his vendetta
against the OEMs and USSB and his blatant support for DMG any time
soon. Me, I have been questioning him directly all summer, and have
gotten some frank, honest answers, and also so highly questionable
rationale.

More likely back when you said I called DMG racists and rednecks. Me,
I never called them racists, but I did say that part of their target
audience, the same one that they have captured with NASCAR, has what I
think are racists elements. But maybe that's a too-complex notion for
you to grasp...

Uh, Tom, the question was about why competing series would be the
worst possible scenario, not whether or not the AMA SB class qualifies
as "big time" according to your personal definition.

Really? Haven't you been the "Oh, well, c'ya" guy? So what's their
place, staying quiet, not enhancing their bike sales and paying much
of the racing bills? Sounds quite plausible...

Okay, you want a direct answer? Why would they be afraid of racing
independent teams "heads-up"? How many times have the factory or
factory-contracted teams lost SSport races to non-factory teams in the
last decade? Zero? Do you think any non-factory team has the financial
resources, the technical resources, the rider resources to
consistently challenge the factories straight up in any class? Because
they haven't done it yet. Maybe if DMG penalizes factory teams for
winning, which they are capable of, or favor larger twins in the rules
construction (like allowing in the 1098R in ASB), that will happen,
but then that's not "heads-up", is it?

Yeah, of course Suzuki-employed Doyle must be a liar, but DMG-employed
Syfan and Fraser are as pure as the driven snow. I do have to concede
that you'd know a liar better than most around here, seeing one every
morning when you look in the mirror...

That's one way to deal with it, I guess. Btw, rained all day today on
the way down, and doesn't sound much better the next couple...

 

The vendetta, the result of Ulrich's failure to bring the two sides
together and his perception that the factories "lied" to him (telling
him they would race in DMG if they had a certain SB rules package,
when in likely fact they'd already given up on DMG) is way too new to
have any such impact. But where I think you see it is that they have
declined to talk to his mag on several recent occasions, and here's an
example of the same:

"Although MIC boasts in its press release about “regularly working
with national media,” every attempt I have ever made to speak to
someone at MIC over the past few years has resulted in being
transferred to a “media hotline” voicemail system. Only a small
percentage of those calls were ever returned, none quicker than days
later. And the same thing is happening today.During my 12-year career
in motorcycle road racing I have had easy, direct communication with
every top official with every racing organization (not to mention
racers and race teams) I have ever covered. Apparently MIC/DTM/USSB
has a different policy on working with the media."

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=34129

That's RRW's Dave Swarts, and I would guess it's probably the same
issue, RRW aren't operating as legitimate journalists on this issue,
so why treat them as such?

Perhaps not, but reacting to racists by catering to their desires can
be argued to be a problem, yes? If DMG drives the Japanese out of
their series or institutes rules that are discriminatory toward their
motorcycles or teams, to make the series more appealing to their
target audience, how far is that from, say, opening private schools
for those folks and banning asian students? I know it's not the same
thing at all, but I still think it's dispicable behavior in any case.

Yesterday I was driving down through rural Illinois and was following
a pickup with these bumper stickers: an American flag, a confederate
stars-and-bars flag (a bit of a contradiction, don't you think?), one
that said something like "gun control means being able to hit your
target", and a Harley sticker. My first thought was, "now there's the
kind of guy DMG is after"...