FZR400 (was newbie plea for advice)

Hey all,
thanks for all your response to my other posts!

As you might tell my learner bike search has seemingly suffered a
brain fart.
I got frustrated with the idea of the 250cc market. 250's going for
the price of a same age 600 or more just because of the learner bike
demand.
I had been considering a cheap as possible VTR250 or TTR600 but i will
be doing most of my riding in trips between 300 and 500km...

I have figured that there are far more effective rides for the money.

I want to get a FZR400 or 600 and put a tamper-proof rev limiter on
it, dynoed so that the rev limiter cuts in at the engine speed that
will take me over 150kw/tonne.
This would give me the torque, bit more comfort and fun that i'm after
for as cheap or cheaper than the learner bikes I have been looking at.

I don't know how to squeeze this past the rta though.
Fundamentally, it's legal. The LAM rules say.. "...no more than 660ml
and 150kw/tonne..."

anyone know who to talk to/think i'm nuts/want to argue about how
stupid i am, or not?
all of your opinions have been very helpful in the past.

Chris

 

The RTA has a listing of bikes that are approved. Technically you can
produce for approval a bike that is learner legal (hence the availability of
33hp Hayabusas in the UK). I haven't seen any documentation that means that
These particular bikes only are learner legal.

I have to say that a 400 is learner legal though, under 60hp. an FZR-SP is
over that. the stock FZR400 will be okay.

I would call the RTA's technical helpline (1800 number in the book) they are
pretty cluey and will assist you , perhaps recommend an engineer that will
document the changes that you plan to make, and allow for you to ride it on
the road. it's something that will have to be engineered.

make the changes to the bike (call and pester a few dyno places) and then
take the result to an engineer that does bikes, they will then do the
calculations and write an engineering certificate that will allow the bike
to be ridden by a learner.

But Do-able.


Chris
(NOT and RTA engineer)

 

awesome will do

 

On the other hand I would suggest you're heading up a disappointing
and fruitless path.

If I'm not mistaken the law in NSW says that Learner and Provisional
motorcyclists are restricted to motorcycles of less than 260cc. There
are then some specific exceptions documented.

None of the specified 2 stroke 250s are legal
(specifically nominated as RGV, TZR, KR1, KR1S, NSR and RS)

And then they have a list of bikes over 250 and under 660cc which are
specifically allowed - that's the LAMs list. There's been a couple of
chookies taken off that list because they are carefully detuned at the
factory by an insert in the carbs that prevents the throttle opening
all the way, they go through the adr compliance process and then get
promptly de-restricted.

Point is, if it's not on the LAMS list and it's not under 260cc than
it ain't legal, and the RTA have no process or ability to approve it -
it would require an act of parliament to allow them this ability.

Again I could be wrong but that's my understanding.

Seriously Chris (not CC) - get an ER5 or GS500 or Hammo's VTR, or any
of the entirely suitable bikes on the LAMS list. Pre-LAMs you had an
argument, now the scope has been opened I have little sympathy for
anyone who claims he can't find a suitable bike amongst the options
available now.

JL
(also not an RTA engineer)

 

John Littler is of the opinion:

I believe that the list is maintained by the RTA, not in the Act
specifically. Too damn long and slow to get the list changed if it had to
go through parliament every time.

But your comments about the bikes that *are* available now are spot-on - if
you want to be a boy-racer, get a CBR250RR-RRRRRRR, otherwise there are
several 500s on the list that would do quite well. Also, the old Z650 (on
the list and one in the paper yesterday) wouldn't be too bad, either.

- Matt

 

I can't actually see the RTA falling for a ploy like that, ie. What's
stopping the electronically-limited learner from sending his
fully-licenced pal out to buy him the full-power $300 black box?

Also, don't you think the big four would rake in more money by selling
the learner both his initial bike and his open-licence upgrade?


BTH

 

In aus.motorcycles on Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:29:48 +1100

Might be right. My first bike was a Yamaha, and I have one of those
now. The first one in 15 years but hey....


Zebee

 

My first was a Honda, in 1967. I've never had another, because whenever
I've been in the market there either hasn't been a Honda model I liked, or
price was wrong, or the dealer gave me the shits.

©onehead

 

In aus.motorcycles on Mon, 24 Nov 2003 04:25:49 GMT

I admit that I've probably had more yamahas than others.

RD250, R5, SR500, SR250 and now the XT500. Compared to 3 Kwaks (2
GT550s and a GPz) 1 Honda (the chop), 2 Ducatis, 2 Guzzis, 1 MZ, 1
Bultaco, 1 BMW. Plus a part share in a waterbottle sidecar, so there's
my Suzuki. Had another BMW, another couple of Hondas and several BSAs
on loan, but I don't know if that counts.

I don't tend to go looking for a particular bike, they just sneak up on
me and mug me. Yammies do seem to have been better at it.


Zebee
- ignoring the TX750 cos it was never "a motorcycle", just the
contents of 2 boxes and a very large plastic bag.

 

Maybe there's something in that... My first bike was a Kawasaki... and my
second... and my most recent... though only a 9.5 year absenteeism in my
case... and I'm still driving the same Holden I bought when I owned my
previous Kawasaki.. and my first car was a Holden as well.

Nev..
'03 ZX12R
'02 CBR1100XX

 

No it isn't legal.

No, you won't get it past the RTA.

The power to weight bizo is done on manufacturers quoted figures, not
what you try and prove.

What appears to be perfectly legal is to pick a machine, either under
260cc or on the approved list, and then make it more powerful. [1]

As an example, many RZ250 Yamahas have somehow ended up with the barrels
and pistons from the 350 RZ.

Apparently, you can also graft on to an RZ the front and rear suspension
from an FZR600.

regards,
CrazyCam

[1] Well, perhaps not legal as such, but much harder to pick. ;-)

 

Brand loyalty eh? Hmmm...

Honda VT500E
Kawasaki Z650
Honda CB400T
Kawasaki GPX250R-II
Honda CX500
Honda VT500E (again)
Kawasaki GPX600R
Honda CBR1000F
Kawasaki GPX250R

There's been a few others ("bitsers" bought for parts), but I've never
owned anything except Hondas and Kwaks. And it's been purely chance,
since they've just been what's turned up cheap when I wanted to buy
something.


BTH

 

Imagine if Learners were only allowed to ride 250's. Dealers would
mass-import cheap used japanese race reps, respray them a myriad of
colour and sponsor combinations and sell them off for 6-7 grand. You
could make a MINT!

I'm not trying to mess with the rules, nor do i want to be a boy
racer. I just want to buy a bike for what it's worth, not how much
some clown wants to flog a replica for.
I would like a full faring bike with enough torque and comfort for the
long haul (500km trips regularly). Power is my least concern and
150kW/tonne is plenty.
Surely you can understand that for the money something like an FZR600
or 400 will do this job much better than a big traillie or a naked or
an oldschool clunker or ANY 250. Yes I could get a BMW but NO I can't
afford it.

I know that I can do a lot better than a 250cc plastic frizbee with
'lucky strike' emblazened upon it, for the money.

Just exploring the possibilities.

THE PROBLEM: getting the rta to listen to me.

Thanks for the Input!

Chris

 

No it isn't legal.

No, you won't get it past the RTA.

The power to weight bizo is done on manufacturers quoted figures, not
what you try and prove.

What appears to be perfectly legal is to pick a machine, either under
260cc or on the approved list, and then make it more powerful. [1]

As an example, many RZ250 Yamahas have somehow ended up with the barrels
and pistons from the 350 RZ.[/QUOTE]

http://www.mightymedia.com.au/~bigiain/MtWhiteBikeShow/Turbo_Zeal.jpg

84hp, they claimed... and it had P plates on...

not _quite_ "within the spirit of the law" in my book...

Note, this page:
http://www.fiinternational.com/restrictors1.asp
appears to offer a 25kW (34hp) restrictor kit for, amongst other things,
a Hayabusa(!) as well as a GSX400...

big

 

In aus.motorcycles on 23 Nov 2003 22:46:28 -0800

So buy a GS500 and put a fairing on it.

Buy an older BMW 650.

I did a lot of 500km days on naked 250s, so have no sympathy with "can't
do that"

It was only when it was regular 1000km days that I got a bigger bike.

A naked 550 kwak which is, I think, LAm compatible, the GT550. I put a
bikini fairing on the first one, and an old Bol'd'Or fairing on the 2nd
one, but the smaller fairing was a better deal.

Buy a bike, get "long ride fit" and when you are off your Ps buy what
you want.

You won't need a full fairing for most riding. yes, it's nice in the
really cold rain, but it's not required. and it's not nice on the
really hot days.

Zebee

 

http://www.mightymedia.com.au/~bigiain/MtWhiteBikeShow/Turbo_Zeal.jpg

84hp, they claimed... and it had P plates on...

not _quite_ "within the spirit of the law" in my book...[/QUOTE]

Possibly not, but.....kinda what I was getting at.

Yup! The poms (and possibly other bits of Europe) have a max. power
limit for various license classes. Not a power to weight ratio.

They have some sort of paperwork system to allow the detuning of bikes.
<shrug> Never have heard how it works....I keep on asking folk.

I remember some pom bike mag with a comparison test, a Cagiva Mito and a
denatured 34 horsepower 'Busa. The Mito slaughtered the big Suzi.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

yes 250 RD / RZ with 350 barrels and a bikini fairing will do 500 km days
and see off lots of bigger bikes...just watch the oil!!
i had a CB250RS too, as i recall it did 160 kph flat out and toured at 110 /
120 quite happily.

 

(Chris) wrote in

I bought a BMW for $2400 nearly 9 years ago... still riding it. It's
probably still worth $2400 too

That's not a bug, it's a feature.

Gary

 

Hmm, first car was a Holden, haven't owned one in umm at least a decade, and am
extremely unlikely to. First bike was a Honda, haven't owned one of those in umm
15 years, would consider it though. Just as likely to buy a Yam as a Suzi, as a
Kwak as a Honda. In fact about the only marque I have any inclination positive
or negative towards is a minor level of negativity surrounding hoglys (as a
result of the sort of people who've been buying them in the last few years), not
enough to stop me buying one if they created one that appealed to me.

JL

 

Not it isn't a problem, a problem implies there could be a solution. It's a fact
that the RTA won't be listening to your pleas about how you're special.

Now you want a fully faired, learner legal bike that's suitable for long trips,
that's not a race replica with a pretzel seating position, no problem, here's a
short list off the top of my head, there may be others, consult the LAMS list:

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/tests/motorcycleridertrainingscheme/motorcyclesnoviceriders.html

GPX 250 (ask BT about it's suitability for touring aka how many 100,000 Kms he's
clocked on one)
ZZR250
Across would be suitable except for shitty fuel range
GS500F
http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/GS500FK4/
(Due out shortly in Oz)
CX500
Silverwing (well it is fully faired

Possibles:
BMW F650 (half faired)
Yam SZR660 ((half faired)
Monster 600 with a bikini fairing (aftermarket)
VF400/VT500/VT600 ( I vaguely recall these as being fully faired - Clemopeadia
?)
?? Z650/Z600/Z500 (again can't recall - think there were half faired)

OK I'm bored, go down the rest of the list, there's going to be more in there
from Suz and Yam and prob some of the others.

Short and sweet you're wasting your time IMNSHO, but if you're Don Quixote's
great great grandson then have fun trying to get the RTA to say yes, allow
several years at the task and buy a LAM in the meantime so you actually get to
ride something

JL
(but what would I know about RTA intransigence)