[QUOTE="Catman"] What, if anything, does the FOAK recommend as action when suddenly finding one has no traction at the front at all? (in a car, specifcally, if that makes any difference) Obviously it's too late for this morning's off road experience, but maybe I can avoid it in future.[/QUOTE] This'll probably put any sane person off travelling in a car with me, but here goes. The last time I found I had no grip I was in the renault 5. I was going down a hill which had a 90 degree right at the bottom, with big boulders straight on. As I got near the bottom I found I was now on black ice and not much was happening in the way of slowing. I took my feet off the pedals and turned the wheel to the right a fair amount, and hoped very very hard that I'd find some grip before slamming into the boulders. The car started turning, but I wouldn't like to guess what would've happened if the ice hadn't run out before the road ran out. The reasoning was that any available grip would be used for steering, not slowing or speeding up. I'm sure someone better at these things can say whether this is reasonable thinking.