FOAK: Front wheel skids

Muck · Mar 3, 2005

dwb said:

Pip wrote:

What does one do in a car with minimal engine braking?
Click to expand...

Like 2 strokes, keep going down gears.

TOG · Mar 3, 2005

Bear wrote:

Oldsmobile Cutlass

<Memory Lane>

I knew a Swede who had one of these but (dear Christ) it was a diesel -
a V* diesel, IIRC. I remember the tasteful way the words "Cutlass"
were emblazoned on either the carpets or the door trims.

I was gobsmacked at the concept - according to him, come the first fuel
crisis, the Yanks decided that a diesel economy car would be a Good
Thing, and simply borrowed the lump from a truck.

I've got to google now to make sure my mind hasn't gone and I'm not
imagining this.

Yup, a 350 or 260 cu.in. V8 diesel. Amazing. Oh, and apparently they
were singularly unsuccessful lumps as well.

Catman · Mar 3, 2005

Eddie said:

Sounds painful.
Click to expand...

Yep. Better than leg break though.
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
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Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

Catman · Mar 3, 2005

Bear said:

Arse Sorry to hear that. At least no serious injuries.
Click to expand...

Indeed so.

<much snippage>

Pretty much what I thought.

The "hand*break*" typo is a good one, considering your current situation

TBH I doubt there's much you could have done once you were in the slide,
if it was sheet ice. The trick is to do what you'd do on a bike in
normal conditions and look much further ahead, and not be afraid to back
*right* off and slow to a crawl if things look dicey.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I figure I was going about 20mph. Still too fast though. Still, we
live and learn.
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 2.0 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

Catman · Mar 3, 2005

Ben said:

Aim for a convenient ditch and park your car on it's side.

At least, that's what a bloke a couple of cars in front of me did this
morning.
Click to expand...

Yep. FWD driver did that although he preferred the straddle the ditch
position.

Ah. Much damage?
Click to expand...

Not as bad as it looks, apparently, though I'm waiting fro the experts.
Bumper, radiator mount, radiator and headlight should see it (fingers
crossed)
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 2.0 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

Mash · Mar 3, 2005

Bear said:

I only did something like 30 miles, in Christ knows how many hours, and
when we got home I almost passed out I was so knackered. The
concentration required is unreal.
Click to expand...

I'll nod quietly to that. Doing Hull->London last year on the sv with
them closing roads left right and centre because of the snow and ice.
I've never been so awake in my life. Loads of black ice, pitch black
filtering down the m1, nice. Eventually got to about 5 miles from my
destination and decided to pack it in at the nearest pub. Couldn't feel
a damn thing, so sat there with a bacardi & coke in one hand and a hot
chocolate in the other waiting to be picked up by someone with 2 wheels
more than me.

Some autos have a "winter" mode that locks them into 2nd until you reach
a threshold speed; this is lovely for getting going, but **** all use
for slowing down; I just plonked the thing in permanent 2nd gear (of 3)
and prayed.
Click to expand...

I'd love to give mine a go to see what happens, but I park on such a
steep driveway that it would just slide down if I were to so much as
sneeze on it.

Catman · Mar 3, 2005

Pip said:

As Bear says, it all depends on the circumstances, road conditions and
vehicle - and your experience, confudence and ability.

I was driving Elly yesterday morning when the sky darkened, wind rose
and the snow descended. Within 10 minutes the (salted) roads were
covered and the tyre tracks had turned into shiny slippery snail
trails - and all the other drivers into snails. Traction was minimal,
so (having had a bit of experience in snow when younger and a bit on
grass/mud/gravel/shale in wrecks with cages) I took to the back roads
where the traffic density was lighter.
Click to expand...

I would have stopped if it was anythiong like it was here briefly.

Second or third gear, max of 45mph or so, easing off to slow down and
not using the brakes. Aiming the trajectory of the car towards where
I wanted it to go even if all traction was lost. Cornering with power
on after turning in early gives more options - and hand on the
handbrake at all times so if the fucker goes in anywhere it goes in
backwards, or at least slides into the verge or hedge sideways - or
even bounces off the kerb back to where you want it.

When traction was lost to the front, pointed the wheels where I wanted
to go and applied a bit of gentle boot. If it didn't respond, a quick
twitch of the handbrake to straighten up and then a good quick bootful
got the car back in line. This is all very well in snow and when
you're ready for it, but fuckall use on ice and when you're caught
unawares. Neither is it devastatingly quick, but it did keep us out
of the path of other road users and to an appointment almost on time.
Click to expand...

Not a hope of me managing that yet.

Snow chains.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Mostly tarmac here though. *dry* tarmac at that.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 2.0 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

Catman · Mar 3, 2005

Muck said:

Catman said:

Bear wrote:

What, if anything, does the FOAK recommend as action
when suddenly finding one has no traction at the front at all? (in a
car, specifcally, if that makes any difference)

Obviously it's too late for this morning's off road experience, but
maybe I can avoid it in future.

Strewth. You ok?
Click to expand...

I actually hurt myself more trying to put up the warning triangle in the
hope that some other idiot wouldn't do what we did and slam into us. The
car's a bit messy though

It depends entirely on the circumstances; I take it we're talking
snow/ice, rather than mud/slush? [1]
Click to expand...

Yes indeed. Sheet ice followed by a nice stretch of what looked like
wet, but was, in fact, shiny ice.

[1] Leeds has had hardly any snow (in the centre at least), although the
M62 yesterday was like something out of Scott Of The Antarctic ... I
find driving in snow rather entertaining though
Click to expand...

Indeed. I usually use it to practice my handbreak turns
Click to expand...

With ice, you've usually got no chance of recovery without studded tyres.

Normally, if you get into a front end slide on a front wheel drive car,
easing off on the power, and straightening the wheels up a little will
ease things back into line again.
Click to expand...

Shame it wasn't the sprint really. Although I *really* would have been
heartbroken had I ploughed that in.

Bit chilly here today it was, chipping the ice off my seat / tank /
clocks on the CG125 I was.
Click to expand...

Aye. It was deffo chilly. And I left my jacket at home.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 2.0 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

Catman · Mar 3, 2005

TOG@toil said:

Low revs, as high a gear as possible, and preferably a diesel (bigger,
slower firing pulses help).
Click to expand...

Heh. Quick change the engien for next winter

Oops

I spent last night in Rye, and came up to Tunbridge Wells on some of
the most treacherous ice roads I have ever experienced in SE England.

Now I've got a little experience of driving on snow and ice, so I
wasn't too fussed, but I was alarmed at the bint in the Audi behind me
who hadn't appreciated that when I was speeding up, it was only on
straight stretches where I could see there wasn't any ice, and I was
tippy-toeing round the corners, having not used the brakes but the
gears to shrug off the speed (such as it was).

One completely iced-over S-bend, and I felt the steering go light, but
I'd killed the speed in advance. She hadn't, and in my mirrors I saw
the Audi go sideways. Nothing coming the oher way, luckily, and equally
amazingly, she didn't go into the scenery.

And, and Big Balls Award to the nutter on the red 600 Diversion. The
only bike I saw on the roads at all, and he must have had a gyroscope
up his arse.
Click to expand...

Bloke came past us on a bike (looed like an old Kwak to my untrained eye)
I'm not a religious man but I was praying for him.
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 2.0 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

Catman · Mar 3, 2005

Bear said:

Indeedy. See if this tale cheers you a bit.
Click to expand...

Eventually he fetched up against a bus shelter further down the hill,
but not before he'd done god knows how many revolutions. It was
hysterically funny to watch, but I dare say less entertaining to
actually be a part of. Sometimes, there's bugger all you can do.
Click to expand...

Heh. Yes, that's true. I'll be happier when my baby is fixed, if it can
be.

PS. I did walk carefully down the hill and checked he was ok. Apart from
raw terror and a bit of shock, he was fine, and he'd hit the snowed-in
bus shelter so slowly that there was minimal damage to it and his motah

Click to expand...

Good
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 2.0 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

les goodwin · Mar 3, 2005

Bear wrote:

Oldsmobile Cutlass

<Memory Lane>
Click to expand...

I had one of those as a hire car in California

Oh, and apparently they
were singularly unsuccessful lumps as well.
Click to expand...

t'were a POS
well the radio wasn't too bad.

Pip · Mar 3, 2005

Catman said:

Yep. Better than leg break though.
Click to expand...

Better still than a googly ...

Monkey · Mar 3, 2005

Pip said:

Second or third gear, max of 45mph or so, easing off to slow down and
not using the brakes. Aiming the trajectory of the car towards where
I wanted it to go even if all traction was lost. Cornering with power
on after turning in early gives more options - and hand on the
handbrake at all times so if the fucker goes in anywhere it goes in
backwards, or at least slides into the verge or hedge sideways - or
even bounces off the kerb back to where you want it.
Click to expand...

If you _know_ you're going off the road, I reckon you're better off
steering towards the kerb. That way, you'll **** up your suspension less
when you hit, and if you're going really quick, make use of the biggest
crumple zone the car's got.

Muck · Mar 3, 2005

Catman said:

Muck wrote:

Catman said:

Bear wrote:

What, if anything, does the FOAK recommend as action
when suddenly finding one has no traction at the front at all? (in a
car, specifcally, if that makes any difference)

Obviously it's too late for this morning's off road experience, but
maybe I can avoid it in future.

Strewth. You ok?

I actually hurt myself more trying to put up the warning triangle in the
hope that some other idiot wouldn't do what we did and slam into us. The
car's a bit messy though

It depends entirely on the circumstances; I take it we're talking
snow/ice, rather than mud/slush? [1]

Yes indeed. Sheet ice followed by a nice stretch of what looked like
wet, but was, in fact, shiny ice.

[1] Leeds has had hardly any snow (in the centre at least), although the
M62 yesterday was like something out of Scott Of The Antarctic ... I
find driving in snow rather entertaining though

Indeed. I usually use it to practice my handbreak turns
Click to expand...

With ice, you've usually got no chance of recovery without studded tyres.

Normally, if you get into a front end slide on a front wheel drive car,
easing off on the power, and straightening the wheels up a little will
ease things back into line again.
Click to expand...

Shame it wasn't the sprint really. Although I *really* would have been
heartbroken had I ploughed that in.
Click to expand...

Well, you didn't, so count your blessings.. but it's still a shock though.

Aye. It was deffo chilly. And I left my jacket at home.
Click to expand...

Always go prepared.

Pip · Mar 3, 2005

Muck said:

Always go prepared.
Click to expand...

It would be fucking nice if you could prepare yourself with a pair of
snipping scissors with every post. Or does your OS prevent that, like
YTC's?

Catman · Mar 3, 2005

Muck wrote:

Well, you didn't, so count your blessings.. but it's still a shock though.
Inded

Always go prepared.
Click to expand...

I usually do. I was soundly lambasted for it on here a couple of years
back.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 2.0 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

Wicked Uncle Nigel · Mar 3, 2005

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Bear

Except sometimes, not even going very slowly will help you; as he
started to inch down the hill the rear broke gradually away, and the car
went into the most gentle 360 you've ever seen ... then it continued,
round and round and round. I got out of the Quattro and watched as this
estate car travelled gently down the hill, going round, and round, and
round and ... every few seconds I'd catch a glimpse of his terrified
face, wide-eyed and staring, as he went round again.
Click to expand...

A few years back, when I was living in Suffolk[1] I was driving my
beloved 1256cc HB Viva up a hill, on a road between two steep banks. I
suddenly found myself pirouetting like a Prima Ballerina on speed.
"WTF?", swiftly followed by the realisation that I was just gently
bumping each bank in turn and had *no* control. I sat back to enjoy the
ride. I eventually ended up facing the right way, on the correct side of
the road. I got out of the car to try to figure out what the hell had
happened. And fell flat on my arse...

Black ice that's *just* been hit by the sun is really quite amazingly
slippery.

[1] I got thrown out for breaking the eyebrow quota.
--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - Manufacturer of the "Champion-105" range of rearsets

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
ZZR1100, Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 (On its hols) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"

Muck · Mar 3, 2005

Pip said:

It would be fucking nice if you could prepare yourself with a pair of
snipping scissors with every post. Or does your OS prevent that, like
YTC's?
Click to expand...

I'd cut myself on them.

Muck · Mar 3, 2005

Catman said:

Muck wrote:

I usually do. I was soundly lambasted for it on here a couple of years
back.
Click to expand...

Getting so cold that you stop digesting your food is not fun.

Ginge · Mar 3, 2005

What does one do in a car with minimal engine braking?
Click to expand...

Bounce it off the rev limiter in the lowest gear possible

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