FOAK - employment law re vacations

Yes they do.

 

marina emerged from their own little world to say

The phrase Owen's looking for is "I will not be here from x to y and I am
quite happy for you to subtract the hours from my holiday ENTITLEMENT"

 

As Ben says he has a contract - it doesn't need to be in writing for it
to exist. The mere fact he turns up and is paid is evidence of a
contract.

As to the problem: I'm almost positive that it is not permissable to
decline holiday on a whim without a concrete reason but it is permissable
to bar holidays over stated periods e.g. known busy times.

As to the requirement for a clear and equitable system for the allocation
of leave I'm not sure.

I'm on a train ATM and will get back to you when I've looked it up. It's
not as if I'm going to be short of people who know....

 

Well, there we were, all ready to do a deal on a super-cheap holiday
to Malta, courtesy of my travel agent daughter ... but no, we can't.

Owen's boss allows the staff to accrue holiday at 1.5 days per
calendar month, beginning January. (I think they do get it made up to
the full 20 days by Christmas closing.) We wanted to go in February,
so Owen asked boss if this might be allowed. Good job we did ask
before booking. The answer came back "No, I don't know how busy we'll
be then." Now I have no problem with a 'No' answer based on it
breaking the rules as set by years of precedent, but this stinks. I
mean, how can anyone book up any kind of holiday in advance with this
system? Is it legal for bosses to allow hols only when it suits them?
And don't say 'if it's in the contract', because none of them have
contracts there. Is that legal, come to that?

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Not driving it one would hope?

 

yes

 

*snort* Superb.

TV/DVD doesn't fit in the cab?

 

Yep, agreed.
Basically just because you may not have signed something that had a header
of contract at the top does not mean you have a contract.
Basically he's working to implied terms and conditions as opposed to
expressed terms and conditions :-(
--
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"wessie" replied to marina

Ummm problem there. It might work, depending what his boss is like but....
the boss is probably holding back because employers are legally allowed to
tell you when you CANNOT take your hols on the basis of "needs of the
business" but really he should justify this to a degree. What he cannot do
is tell you that you have to take your hols at a certain time.

This excludes some smaller businesses i guess and im drawing on knowledge
within NHS institutions but AFAIK its widespread.
--
Donegal Paul
Lambretta Li186 - crashed and bashed
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www.ailishandcharlie.co.uk

 

From the ACAS website.
-
Holiday pay
Most workers - whether part-time or full-time - are entitled to four
weeks' paid annual leave.

A week's leave should allow workers to be away from work for a week - ie
it should be the same amount of time as the working week. If a worker
does a five-day week, he or she is entitled to 20 days leave. If he or
she does a three-day week, the entitlement is 12 days leave.

There is no statutory right to have bank holidays off as paid leave.
They may be part of the four weeks leave - some employment contracts
deal with bank holidays separately. Workers must give the employer
notice that they want to take leave.

Employers can set the times that workers take their leave, for example
for a Christmas shutdown.

If a worker's employment ends, he or she has a right to be paid for the
leave time due and not taken.
-

So, provided Owen gives reasonable notice to his boss (unless the boss
has already published a schedule of when holiday can be taken), then you
should be able to book a holiday and the boss can't decline.

 

Are you sure bosses can't specify when holidays are taken?

My first proper job was in an office attached to a factory, the holiday
allowances were fairly generous, but they had to be taken at specified times
when they shut down the factory (2 weeks during the school summer holidays,
2 weeks over Christmas and New Year) and a few other bits and bobs during
the course of the year.

Speaking of school holidays, aren't teachers and lecturers forced to take
their holidays at certain times?

As for Owen's contract, or lack thereof, if he hasn't got a written contract
then he must at least have a written statement of terms.

If Owen has been employed by the same employer for over two months and has
had neither a written contract or a written statement of terms then his
employers are in breach of the law.


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The speccy Geordie twat.

 

AndrewR says...

A lot of small businesses operate like this. I put it down to bad
management and laziness on their part.

 

"AndrewR" replied to "Donegal Paul"

I would imagine that if the nature of the business is such that there are
certain times where there is no justification to be paying people to do
nothing then i guess thats ok, and probably covered within the terms and
conditions of the job, whether implied or not. This im sure would be pointed
out either at interview or induction and therefore accepted by default on
your first day working unless you wish to contest it?

My own personal experience is from NHS institutions though and unfortunately
we dont get to close :-(

As above im guessing?

Again, probably covered within the interview / induction / job description
--
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They can, but it has to be clearly set out in the contract / handbook.

I've tried to block holidays for people in the past, but my my
department stick to the rule that so long as I'm given 4 weeks notice
and those days aren't already booked by too many other employees, then I
have to allow it. (The exception being all of December and the 2 weeks
in the run up to Easter).

 

SteveH emerged from their own little world to say

In a production environment, at Xerox, the agreement with the TU was that a
holiday could only be refused if 10% of the people in your grade had
already booked the time off.

 

We operate on a 2 part time / 1 full time off as a maximum.

 

(SteveH) struggled to ejaculate:

Fair enough, for a corner shop.

 

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "AndrewR"

That's still fairly common in some areas of manufacturing, allowing
maintenance and overhaul of essential plant without disrupting
production.

--

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The miserably sad truth is he can do both in the absence of any contractual
provision to the contrary.

The law doesn't give a rat's arse so long as you get 4 weeks a year.

The point raised before about custom and practice cuts both way though so
looking for precedent may be the best option.

Reasoned discussion could help too - eg Yes we *might* be busy in February
but isn't it more likely that you'd rather have me/us at work when everyone
else wants to piss off?


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Homer (Simpson).

 

13 weeks, actually.
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