Flip Flop

We have one candidate that flubs his lines when elocuting.

We have another candidate that speaks very understandably.
http://media1.streamtoyou.com/rnc/080304v1.wmv

 

Thanks, clearly Kerry says whatever it takes to get elected. IMHO the
demo's would never have fielded a liberal in the same mold as Ted Kennedy in
normal times. Clinton coasted thru 8 years of easy living based on work
that Reagan had done to get rid of the USSR threats and of the older Bush
keeping the oil flowing, not to mention the welfare reform that was promoted
by the republicans as well as a bunch of demos including Clinton. But then,
Clinton was unlike Teddie and was electable as well.

 

Good to see a candidate that will look back on his record and make changes
according to the wants and needs of the people. Not someone so stuck to do
it my way or the highway. I thought nixon resigned.

Like Kerry and the majority of the public at the time I supported and still
do support removing Saddam out of Iraq. I however do not support the
continued narrow minded president in allowing our people be killed just to
carry out his regime. The government the president has proposed will be
eliminated within 5 years of our departure. We needed the UN to carry out
this part of the mission to ensure the kind of government that can survive
in a region that only accepts kingdoms and dictatorships. Its the mindset
of the people we need to change and we've not done that by killing their
relatives and friends. At best we've only guarenteed ourselves another
Iran.

 

Like they enforced the violations of their resolutions over 12 years?

[see me]

[see someone holding their breath]

[see that the two above are not the same person]

 

Civil war was NOT about "freeing slaves".. it was about "States Rights"
(which, yes, included the slavery issues).. but I'm splitting hairs,
there...

People cheered when Kennedy was shot, too....

Rex S.

 

No, let's look at Bushs current 'history': Lied about the job growth
in May. Lied about the job growth in June. Got caught at it in july
and claimed 'we're turining the corner'. Four more years of that and
even you and I will be unemployed.



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Charles - Which of my statements was incorrect?

Rex S.

 

Bush declared the war won over a year ago. So there is no war going on at
this time in Iraq according to our president. There is only government
building and restoration. BTW we have long surpassed the number of our
people that died in peace time has overtaken the number that died during the
war.

In Japan we didn't change regimes. The emporer was still in power for many
years before Japan changed the way they were doing things. The US didn't
replace the emporer.
In Germany and Italy we are dealing with people with like mind sets. In
Italy the majority of the people were glad to see the allied forces. Many
of the German people were appalled when they learned what their government
did. Some may have known or heard rumors, but like with us we haven't done
anything to stop atrocities.

My point exactly about their mindset. We don't grasp it. We believe
democracy will be accepted without any problems. However with a group that
are willing to kill for any reason do you think democracy will hold. Lets
all vote on it while they are shooting.

 

They enforced the resolutions for the first 7 years as best as could be done
by them. The Clinton administration didn't push the issue after 1998 and
the Bush admin didn't make a real issue of it until 2002. If was so
important then why did the US take so long to make it an issue?
Now the violation for 12 years is why I supported Bush for going to war.
Even tho he demanded the UN to get involved and when they did and the
results were not what he wanted then Bush didn't want to wait. Now if the
UN did such a horrible job this last time in trying to locate the WMD's,
tell me how the Bush admin has done in locating the WMD's. We gave the UN
around 3 months to do the job, we've been there over a year and have we
found any?

 

In many ways I agree. However, humanitarian aid and assisting a government
would be what the UN would be good for. After all they are closer to the
threat and will have to live with the results. If we screw it up then
everyone points a finger and says its your fault. This makes us a much
greater target for terrorist and why should anyone else care, after all we
screwed it up ourselves. If the UN screws it up then we're all in the same
boat, except that the european countries are easier targets than us.

 

So you agreed that the VW was great for this country and had a important
signifigance to democracy around the world. I would say that the majority
of Americans finally realized what a lie the war was and did what they could
to stop it. Many of our vets came back to protest this war. Many of those
same vets volunteered early on and changed their minds after serving.
There are many ways to become a hero, at least Kerry did what he could. Not
like other people who served in guard duty to avoid going to war and then
have questions about whether he actually served or not. Gee nothing like
having a leader who shows what most people call cowardness. He never took a
stand against the war, but he sure wasn't going to be in it.

America changes, attitudes change, economics change, policy changes, but
there are those that still believe we should be driving a model T ford. Do
you believe we should still drive Model T's while the rest of the world is
driving much faster, safer, and economical?
The 70's are different from the 80's are different from the 90's which are
different from today. Check on Bush's attitude of the 70's vs 80's vs 90's
vs today. Of course the late 70's and much of the 80's are a blur to
George. Does he still believe that cocaine should be available to the
common man or is he against drug use?
In the 90's he was someone who looked up to the constitution and believed
that the government should be reduced in size. He believe that Americans
should be free of discrimination and the government should not be in their
lives at all. Today we have the patriot act that was drawn up by his admin.
Probably one of the worst acts against the constitution in the last decade.
Hundreds of people (americans or not) have been imprisioned with no access
to legal help.
The George in office today was not the one voted in. Although some things
are the same, many have changed.

George maybe a leader, just not the right one at this time.

 

What war you talking about? Surely not the war on terrorism, that will
never be over. "George W. Bush declared an end to major combat hostilities
in Iraq on May 1" That date certainly does not mark the start of peace, no
one ever said it did.

The emperor had no real power, was a figurehead. Then and now. Tito and
the military controlled the government, much like the clerics control iraq
and the dictators in the rest of the middle east.

Not sure what you mean by like mind set, maybe you can explain that. They
were christian, the japs were non-christian. The germans and italians were
allowed 1 wife, the japs were like the mormans and moslems.

The majority didnt care what their government, the nazi's, did. We didnt do
anything to stop antrocities in bosnia? What do you think that war was
fought over? Governments need to take care of their own problems, that is
the purpose of a government. The germans got out of hand in the 1930.
Roosevelt turned away refugees from germany, effectively sending them to
their deaths. We ended up fighting ww2 We have done more to stop
antrocities than any other country, maybe we should not have.

Why shouldnt democracy be accepted? Do you think democracy is limited to
the USA or english speaking countries only? Sure there will be problems,
there were problems in 1776 with democracy being accepted by the british.
If the british had WMD do you think king george wouldnt have used them?

 

Hogwash back to you.
Its been our foreign policies of the middle east that have caused these
problems. We caused the hatred in Iran because we supported a cruel
dictator, even assisting by stopping those that tried to overthrow him.
Our support of Israel has drawn ire from nearly every middle east country,
even those that are our supposed be our friends.
Our mess up of Iraq that wound up having the first gulf war putting troops
in Saudia Arabia is what Osama to wage war against us.
Our policies of the middle east started not long after WW II and have
continued to draw hatred from the arab world.

To say we did nothing to cause this hatred is an absolute lie.

 

It was the US pushing the policy. It was the US misunderstanding that
caused the gulf war to begin with. If its unimportant to us, then why
should they worry about it. The other members were friends with Sadam, they
didn't trust him, but they were more than willing to work with him. So like
it or not it was our issue, not theirs.

No excuses made there. Just pointing out the Bush admin complained the UN
after around 3 months couldn't or wouldn't do their job. Bush after over 1
year has yet to produce the weapons.

 

I'll let you go this link and look at the items. Some of it can be
described as bad intel, others are just lies or great exagerations in order
to support a flimsy reason for war.

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/08/10/Worldandnation/A_look_back_at_Powell.shtml

You said a finger in the wind for kerry. I say a nose candy on the table
for george.

Yes I blame Bush for it. It was his administration that proposed it and
demanded it get passed. What he has no responsibility for his actions?
I think any law that allows the government to do what it wants without any
reprisal for its actions is a pos.
Some pieces of the law maybe worth keeping, but not in its current form. And
Yes I have written Senators and Reps and let them know that this should die
in 2005. Interesting how both the Texas Democrat and Republican parties
have called for repeal of this act.

How do you know they are non americans. Their names and info have not been
released. Currently the actual number of people are still in question. I
really don't have a problem with illegals being locked up and then shipped
home. I do have a problem when no information is available about anyone,
and I do have a problem with those people being held indefinetly. Charge em
or send them home.


Elmer McKeegan

anti-spam: remove the 9 to send me email

 

Those were never answered. The documents produced showed that George showed
up a few times. They never showed he appeared for the whole time he was
assigned. The dates in question are still in question, just over time
people realized the info could never be answered and decided to drop it.
Never proven.

What are you talking about that skirt chasing, pot smoking, draft dogger.
He ain't running for president today so although my sentiments have spoken
in the previous sentence, it makes no difference to the kerry bush issue.

You know I haven't asked.

Hopefully not as interesting as the last election. Win or lose (no draws).

 

even kerry reiterated his "yes" on the iraq war just recently, based on info
know back then.

somebody else here gave the metaphore, not me.

fine, deal with it, deal with the new intel czar that kerry supports. the
new intel czar will have more power, deal with that too. I suspect the
homeland defense is going to be around a lot longer. The patriot act gets
voted on too, deal with that when it happens too.

yes, i agree, citizens have a right to legal counsel, even those capture on
battlefield as that scum fighting against us in afganistan a couple of years
ago. i have no problem with citizens, only non-citizens who are illegal
combantants ie: terrorists & supporters. In a democracy, people vote on
what they want. There is no win-win or there would not be a vote to start
with. Bush came into office fighting a recession and quickly had to stand
up to a terrorist attack. He has risen to the occassion and had the highest
support of any president since polling was originated. If he had found WMD
there would be no problem with the war and his opponnents would be
scrambleing for something to complain about. It was the fault of the
intelligence collection, not any lying on bush's part. Come this november,
moveon is going to move on one way or another. What is not going to move on
the the terrorist threat and the war against those scum.

 

Oh, I think the reasons behind the war was anything but pure and simple. It
was about power. Any other reason was purely a consequence of this. Economic
power. Political power. And egos.

 

the War Between the States was a result of, in order of importance:

1) Industrial Society versus Agrarian Society; it was the industrial
revolution for the USA; the triumph (not norton nor bsa) of the culture
of city centric living and the beginning of the end for rural farm
culture that had existed uninterrupted from colonial times.

2) States Rights versus a strong centralized Federal Government. A
fragmented government could not compete against a single centralized
authority and coordination of resources to a single effort.

3) Slavery, which happened to be incidental to both of the above reasons
but less important than either or both. It made for good PR to the
average twit but hid the real issues which were clearly economic and
were an irreversible transition. Even if slavery hadn't existed, the
war would have happened simply from the secession of states rights
proponents versus federalists and the agrarian/industrial society each
represented. The northern states were just as aggressive in keeping the
negro in "its" place after the war as it was before. the U.S. military
wasn't close to integrated until well into WW2 and that's just one
example of the hypocrisy that existed then and still does today.

they didn't have motorcycles in the 1860s either.

 

From the onset we could have stopped it with one silly word, however when
the actual question was raised by Sadam on whether the US would intervene if
Iraq was to invade Kuwait the then Bush admin said nothing. Just a simple
yes, or a more complex "depends on arab reaction" may have given Sadam
second thoughts. Maybe not, but the fact is we didn't act to begin with,
because at that time Sadam was our uneasy friend (he was killing Iranians).

That's the big question. What can we do, besides putting pressure on both
sides to come to the peace table. If I had my druthers Arafat would have
already died of some natural cause. A tentative peace plan would be setup
and then the UN would be pulled in to help with the peace process. Heavy
with Arab nations. If they want to blow each other up, let fellow Arabs feel
more of the burden.

Yeh, since the crusades its been a problem. But to say we don't deserve any
blame for the things we've done is just as bad.