Fear of cornering course.

Can anyone help me go round corners quicker? Horrible to admit to,
but -

I have come back to two wheels after a long layoff driving cars (20
yrs +). I'm quite happy with most aspects of my riding, but I corner
like a pensioner. I slow down too much and keep the bike far too
upright. It's purely a lack of confidence. Looking back, I was never
demon quick round the twisty bits, but seeing that vid of Jeffries
going round the Island made me realise just how chickenshit I am. I
ought to point out that I am a very confident car driver, like to
drive fast and safe, and I know (intellectually) all the stuff about
cornering lines, limit points, hazard avoidance and all that stuff.
It's not that I don't KNOW how to corner - it's that I lack the
confidence to pitch the bike into a corner, lay it on its ear and
power round, in other words to DO it. I always corner at a speed I
know will be safe, but I'm aware I could be going a lot quicker if I
dared to. The basic feeling is that if I lean more, the bike will
slide out from under me (on four wheels, I'm fine). It may be
something to do with the fact that the only off I have ever had was
through cornering too fast in the wet and lowsiding it. Minor, but
painful to bike and body. Since then I have been more cautious, and
this has translated on my return to biking into fully timid.

A bit like a "fear of flying" course - can anyone offer hints on how
to conquer a "fear of cornering"? This is a serious query, not a
troll.

Many TIA.

 

I recently did that too.

I did that too! On my first ride out I felt like a 5 year old riding his
bike without stabilisers for the first time. Fecking embarrassing, it was.

That's the chappy - going round corners by turning the handlebars rather
than leaning

Others who know exactly what to tell you will be along shortly, but what I
did was to find some local roads with nice slow bends, good visibility, on a
dry day, and just go around them a few times. The first time you lean over
properly, in the right gear, at the right speed, it seems to wake up a part
of your brain you used to use and it all becomes a lot easier and more
natural again.

There's an awful lot more traffic now than there was when I first started
riding in 1980 so finding nice quiet roads was a challenge, but it helped
me.

 

Either
1.Time & mileage. If your lines are right speed will follow naturally once
you get back into the swing.
or
2.Sign up for some advanced training of whatever flavour you fancy RoSPA,
IAM or some other tailored instuction.

As you are a 'born again biker' I would suggest 2(asap) then 1.

 

wot e sed
a single day with a MAC instructor would do you proud, but ask them to
emphasise on corners
http://www.roadsafetyni.gov.uk/index/motorcycles/instructors.htm

 

I did the IAM ages ago, but the emphasis was on "safe, then smooth,
then quick, in that order". I was safe/smooth/quick enough to pass
the IAM test, but I doubt if the standard of quickness was all that
high. I did a few rides out with the local group, and they were the
fastest rides I have ever done. I think following an IAM instructor
on a similar bike to your own into a bend gives you the confidence to
bang it in. On my own, I always erred on the side of (too much)
caution. I'm beginning to wonder if a trackday might help. If I
could find the limits of the bike (basically, it boils down to how far
it will lean without crashing) in those conditions, it would give me
the confidence on the road that I lack.

 

All in NI, which is a bit far for me, but thanks for the pointer -
I'll chase up something similar round here.

DaveP

 

Where are you based? Several of us have done refresher courses with Dave
Corden in Bristol, and he's a top bloke.

 

Yes, and you feel so vulnerable after years in a metal box.

Not quite as bad as that! My riding is quite smooth, I just think in
the corners I am over-cautious (I accelerate, brake, overtake and
filter like a bastard, but then I slow down for the corners "just in
case").

I know what you mean, but I'm not sure that part of my brain was ever
fully awake. Looking back, I have always been timid in the corners.
What I really need is someone who can tell me (or better show me) just
how far a modern bike can go over without losing grip and crashing,
and for me to believe them. You know how fear of flying courses show
you what a plane can do, and explain why it won't crash, instead of
just assuming you know already? Like that.

Cheers

DaveP

 

o0-0o wrote

The grip of modern rubber is *awesome*. You don't have to have soft
race slicks fitted to find this out, you just need to do the mileage.

Well... You have been told, now go out and find out.

Although having said that I would suspect that you are concentrating far
too much on the bit of road you are currently occupying and paying
bugger all attention to where you will be in the next half second, which
causes problems. Learn about the "Thousand Yard Stare", it is
surprising the difference it makes.

 

darsy wrote

Well yes, obviously.

I am a fan of the dual compound Bridgestones. Mind you I really like
the concept of dual compound so that is an easy sale.

 

o0-0o says...

Oldbloke, is that you?

 

darsy says...

Macadams are shite, but they are still light years ahead of what was
available in the early 80s. I reckon you could have called them
supersports or trackday tyres in 1990.

 

o0-0o says...

In my experience the AIM training focusses too much on thinking and too
little on instinctive riding. I don't need to actively countersteer, my
brain takes over and decides how much is needed and when. The IAM teach
you to push the bar - to my mind that's not needed and adds another
factor into your thought processes. Ok, the IAM teach you the road
positioning and observation aspects well, but alot of the riding
techniques I hear about appear to be overcomplex bollocks that just give
you too much to think about.

What bike do you ride and what tyres do you have fitted?

 

Agreed, although I didn't have training from the IAM, just a couple of
observed runs and the test after reading Roadcraft and applying the
principles for a few weeks in my own riding.

XT660R, Michelin Siracs, came with the bike, 1000 miles run.

DaveP

 

Do I take it you are advising against *awesome* grip because such
tyres may grip and grip and then *suddenly* let go?

Having had Pilot Power 2CTs and Macadams on the same bike and ridden
it in hill climbs I can confirm that the Macadams let go sooner, at
speeds and angles of lean where recovery could be achieved. Having
said that, the 2CTs seem reasonably predictable and progressive
despite requiring more provocation to slide. Naturally the speed and
lean angle are more extreme, so the penalty for not catching it would
be higher. So it could be argued, that if you want to explore the
envelope to experience what a slide feels like, reasonable grip is
better than awesome.

Such experimentation is probably better carried out at a track day.
Even better, the OP should get themselves to a hill climb on a have a
go day. No traffic coming the other way or even the same way.

 

<snip, Treatise on Variable Grip of Motorcycle Tyres in the Modern
World>

No, I expect he's taking the piss. This is darsy, let us not forget.

Whilst I take your point, (and I'm not having a go at your sport)
there's a lot of pressure at a hillclimb, a lot of which is generated
by having only a limited number of attempts up the hill, from a
standing start on cold tyres. Entry fee <shrugs> over time actually
riding equals something quite expensive per minute, I'd assume - for
the likely privilege of hurling oneself and one's machine at the
scenery in a safe and controlled environment. For fairly "un" values
of those last, natch.

I reckon the OP needs to get some miles in, get his lines and his
timing right and be as smooth as he can. Then he'll be ready for the
Corden treatment or to get something out of a trackday. if he does
take to the track I'd suggest he does one of the Haslam days where he
hires one of their bikes in the deal.

 

Fair comment. We are all certifiable (as demonstrated at the kart race
last weekend). Horribly addictive though. Never mind FTD or points - can
I get this bike up this hill quicker than ever before, even if by only
100th of a second? The minutes per pound on the bike are indeed somewhat
low. The one sure thing though is that there will be nobody else to
blame for any mishaps but yourself and virtually zero chance of causing
anyone else damage if you balls it up. Even at a track day on a hired
bike the thought of fetching someone else off (could be just another
bike not far behind you are unaware of) might inhibit seeing just how
far you can push it (Champ will not agree - note the 'might')

Sage advice. If, howver, the NHCA ever organise another 'practice day'
at Curborough sprint course that might be a good opportunity, once the
OP feels a bit more confident but wants to push it a bit more in a no
limit traffic free environment.
--

+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest Yamaha WR250Z |
| Gilera GFR Moto Morini 2C/375 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+

 

Coo. Sounds like fun. Do they allow disreputable Russian outfits to
participate?

--
platypus

"Merely corroborative detail, intended to
give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise
bald and unconvincing narrative."

 

Anything goes. Machines do have to pass scrutineering, but if everything
works the only additional requirement apart from numbers is wiring of
sump plugs (possibly not even that if a 'run what you brung' event) and
properly clamped fuel lines. IIRC you don't even have to have a lanyard
kill switch on an outfit anymore.

http://www.nhca.co.uk/ACURules/ACU.htm

There is the small matter of persuading someone to be 'monkey' though.

--

+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest Yamaha WR250Z |
| Gilera GFR Moto Morini 2C/375 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+

 

I did that once, on a full race outfit. After agreeing in a drunken
haze, the next day was a messy haze of practice on the edge of an old
airfield, and the next weekend we did it for real.

I'll never do it again.