ER-5 Leaky Gasket

Hello luvvies.

At prawn's 25th anniversary event I questioned Mr. W Courier about a
white goo that I could see through the engine oil sight glass. I
recognised the goo from my old Rover 214Si that used to spew water
into its oil. Mr. Courier confirmed that it looked very much like
water was in it, but upon sticking a twig into the engine the oil
looked fine.

The coolant was at its normal maximum level (it would appear never to
have lost a drop of water since I came to own the machine 12,000 miles
ago) so I had no idea where the contamination might have come from.

Today I did the usual weekly checks on the bike (ie. Is the bike still
sitting outside the house, how many wheels does it have) and I noticed
the coolant level had dropped from its normal Maximum to just below
Minimum.

It sounds like it may well have a leaky gasket.

As I'll be getting a Man in to sort this out, do you know how much I'm
likely to have to shell out to have this fixed? It's payday tomorrow.
I suppose it'll need a new (head?) gasket, new oil, oil filter and
probably worth changing the coolant itself? Plus an hour or two
labour?

 

In uk.rec.motorcycles, BGN amazed us all with this pearl of wisdom:

Yep, I was rather perplexed (even with copious amounts of alchihole)
that you said the water level was normal.

25-30 quid for the oil and bits and 50+ an hour for labour, I'd say.

 

The local causes-more-problems-than-it-fixes Cheriton Motorcycles
garage have said that "it's winter and one pulls more fog and moisture
into the engine, so that can emulsify the oil at this time of year."

"What's your water like? Do you have a lack of power?"

I advised that yes, the water had gone down but I've topped it up and
I was having a bit of an iffy power problem (which I think I told you
about at prawn's 25th) until the engine was properly warm. He says to
top up the water and monitor the levels over the next few days and if
the water goes down again they'll have it in so they may can it with a
spanner.

They don't seem to want my money. Which is nice.

 

Short winter trips and generally less use. Is it kept outside?

Without having seen it I'd guess it's emulsified condensation.

Has the oil level raised? Is there oil in the coolant?

Top up the coolant and if it goes down appreciably in the next few days
then worry.

IME you *know* when you've got a leak. I think you've simply got
emulsified oil.

Incidentally, this isn't a good thing. I'd change the oil when you're
satisfied you haven't got a leak.

 

That's the one. Let it develop while monitoring the situation.

Condensation inside cold casings, innit. Normal.

 

As others say, I really doubt you've got a head gasket leak. What
you've got is condensation: very common in winter. To be absolutely
sure, take the bike for a good long three-hour hammer, which should be
enough to get it really hot and evaporate all the condensation.

The ER5 engine is a detuned version of the GPZ500s lump, as you know,
and even the hotter GPZ engine doesn't have a reputation for popping
head gaskets. Keep an eye on coolant and oil, but I think your bike
shop has been good to you. It's unlikely you have a problem.

 

Opening the throttle wider for longer usually fixes the problem.

 

Yup. Day at work, night at home.

That's what I was hoping. I'll take a photo of it next time I'm in
daylight, but there's a slit either side of the engine near the top
that doean't appear to have a rubber seal. Perhaps other ER-5 owners
will be able to clarify if their bike has a similar gap. Photos to
come. Moisture/air could get in there.

Oil level doesn't appear to have raised as I popped in half a litre a
few weeks ago. Having to top up the oil every few thousand miles
seems normal on this bike so it's nothing out of the ordinary. But it
does make it difficult to check if the oil level has dropped.

Thanks. I like cheap solutions.

Would this cause a performance issue until the engine had gone a
couple of miles, do you think?

I'll have a go. I don't think changing the oil will be an issue but I
don't have the tools to remove the existing filter and attach a new
one (I suppose it needs to be fairly tight).

Should I replace the 2,000 mile-old oil filter at the same time as
getting rid of the old oil?

Oh, and if the water/goo floats and leaves a tide mark wouldn't the
new oil still have goo in it after replacement?

 

That seems to make the engine more responsive. Until the engine has
done a couple of miles there is a performance issue. It'll do low
revs and high revs, but upon opening the throttle it'll get up to
about 1/3 up the rev range, hesitate for a couple of seconds, and then
zoom up to the top. The only way I can describe it is as something
like a dead spot on the accelerator on a car.

This dissapears after a couple of miles.

 

My Bandit did this when it was less than about 4 degrees C and damp, but
cleared up when the engine got hot. When it was really cold, it did it
all the time, coz it's got no carb heaters (import model).

Carb heaters playing up, with resultant iceing? Shit in the tank (piss
in the carbs)? Shit in the carbs (piss in the tank)?

 

BGN wrote:

This is called winter.

Does it have a choke? Have you tried keeping it out for a mile or so.

Until the engine warms up?

 

It's not so much leaks as such it's more about change in temperature and
condensation in the engine cases mixing with the oil. If the engine
never gets up to a good temperature then the condensation doesn't get to
evaporate fully.

No, this is winter and cold weather.

I've got the tools. You only need them to remove the filter cannister,
to fit you just do them hand tight.

I wouldn't bother. If you do, get it over to Brighton and I'll service
it for you. You buy the fish and chips.

You needn't worry about that. Just remember to take it for a good blast
- say 50 miles - every fortnight or so.

 

I don't like the cold.

I leave the choke on full until the engine has got up to a decent
speed and gradually reduce it to the off position until I hop on the
bike. This is normally a minute or so as I get out of the house, kick
it out of gear, put the key in, turn it, choke on, ignition on. Put
helmet/gloves on, choke off, hop on, piss off to work.

The manual states that one should never ride the bike with the choke
in the 'on' position so I haven't done it in the past.

Yes.

 

Aha. I'm doing a couple of 4 mile trips a day and that it at the
moment so that would do it.

Winter shall be outlawed come the revolution.

Finally a man with tools and the knowledge of how to use them.

Thanks. I'll take you up on that offer sometime. I'd like to be able
to do basic things like change the oil and replace the front brake
pads as this would save me quite a bit of money over the year. I seem
to get through front brake pads quite quickly due to it only having
one front disc, twin calliper (obviously not due to aggressive
braking, officer.)

I've always thought taking it out for a scream will do it some good.

I remember it started to act rather 'shit' (for want of a better term)
when I was house sitting for Rod. The daily routing would be
something like this:

1) Ride 6 miles to work
2) Ride 3 miles home
3) Ride 3 miles to Rod's place
4) Ride 2 miles to Hythe
5) Ride 4 miles to work
6) Ride 3 miles home
etc, etc.

After a week of that treatment it was starting to give me "I hate you
and everything about you" evils. After a good blast to Rye (With Biz,
IIRC) did it no end of good.

During the summer it used to go for nice long runs around the cun'ree
but as the roads are utterly gay now it only gets taken for a run to
work and back unless I'm really stressed and I need to calm down.

It's taking me and a young lady to Belgium and back on Saturday which
should blow the cobwebs away.

 

Even *I* can do that! Not that I choose to... But I could.

But it's a 500cc twin. Just shut the throttle and it'll virtually stop
itsself. Or have I got too used to two-strokes again?

Wouldn't that be good, though?

A real lady? Oooh! Get her!

It may blow the cobwebs away but, from all accounts on t'internet, it'll
freeze yer knackers off. Wrap up warm, young Nick.

Dave

 

You're a man of many talents.

The engine braking is effective, I don't use the front brakes much, I
just close the throttle and touch the rear enough to turn the brake
light on when there's someone lurking behind.

Gay in a bad way.

A married women who is soon to be divorced. She has a Greek boyfriend
who lives abroad and thinks I'm bonking her as she doesn't know the
Greek for "gay."

A child at the office said, "Daddy, why is that man dressed like Buzz
Lightyear?" about me last week. I'm suze Buzz Lightyear wore white
and green, but I wear black and red. Aren't children repulsive?

 

Thanks! I think.

You got a sticky caliper then?

That was one of them there usages of a word in a denigrating way that only a
person who could be offended by the term can use, wouldn't it? Like NWA
using the 'N' bit? 'Cos they *can* say it like that, but I can't.

Wait 'til she *does* learn the Greek for gay, let her tell him, then THUTA.
Go on! It'll do his head in..

Sounds like a chat-up line to me... Actually what is it with Buzz
Lightyear? A couple fo mates have kids and they're bloody mental for Toy
Story even though it was made 6 years before they were conceived, let alone
born! I'm now favourite foreign visitor to one kid 'cos, when I cleared the
house I had an old, slightly rusty Buzz Lightyear bin (it was in the
'office' bit) and I gave to it to him before I left. Weird bloody little
human things...

Dave

 

BGN said...

The Greek for "gay" is "Greek"

HTH

 

WavyDavy said...

Ask Christofire

 

In uk.rec.motorcycles, BGN amazed us all with this pearl of wisdom:

FFS, nick. Ioffered to show you how it's done last time I saw you. I
also mentioned the condensation thing.

<tuts and rolls eyes>