Edible hats at the ready guys...

I just sold an XT500 to a guy who googled around and saw one in my .sig
a while back.

I have a Rickman Mettisse with road going wheels and an XT600 4 valver
which I must get around to putting back on the road, the best handling
bike I've ever ridden bar none.

--
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tallbloke
http://www.tallbloke.net
BONY#1 DIAABTCOD#7
Bikes 'n' Bits.

 

My 500 handled like a piece of shit.

 

Yes well, XT frame, z900 forks....

I thinka good hand built brit frame with a modern jap single (The XT was
based on the BSA Gold star by the way) is the way to get the best of
both worlds with some 'reliability' (thrashability ) in the engine
department. The rickman uses some little known (outside trials and
enduro circles) forks called 'Metal Profiles'.

It may even get me out of the jap vs brit quaqmire I've been thrust
into.

--
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tallbloke
http://www.tallbloke.net
BONY#1 DIAABTCOD#7
Bikes 'n' Bits.

 

S'funny, I don't rememeber the goldie having an overhead camshaft
engine...

 

Yeah, I know. The important internal dimensions are pretty much Goldie
though.

Yamaha bought the blueprints off Showa Hoske, who bought 'em off BSA.

Like selling the crown jewels innit ;-)

--
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tallbloke
http://www.tallbloke.net
BONY#1 DIAABTCOD#7
Bikes 'n' Bits.

 

Piss poor job they did of copying it then. Starting out with an OHV
motor of 85x88mm Bore and Stroke and ending up with an SOHC of
87*84mm...

 

heh. I imagine Yamaha bought the blueprints and pinned them up on the
wall of the design office, to give themselves a good laugh every
morning, safe in the knowledge that they couldn't fail to beat the
opposition

 

Oddly enough, the XT motor only kicked out 33bhp, whereas the original
goldie claimed about 40, IIRC.

 

Now that makes perfect sense, and is a well-reasoned point of view.

 

I'm almost certain this is wrong.

Yamaha *did* acquire the designs, through Showa, of an OHC twin which
metamorphosed into the XS1/2/650. Showa had in turn copied it from a
Germany manufacturer called Hosk.

I think you're confusing the XS twin and XT single. In fact I'm sure you
are.

 

Hmm, we're both partly wrong, partly right. The german manufacturer
was Horex,
Hosk were Japanese and copied their design, then were taken over by
Showa.

"The big twin's heritage is older and more interesting than you might
think.During the early 1950s, Japanese motorcycle manufacturers were
frankly copying European designs. It was during this period that the
seed was planted which was to become the XS650 of today. Horex, in
Germany, designed a 500cc SOHC vertical twin that was thoroughly
modern in concept and execution. The impecunious and enthusiastic
engineer of Hosk in Japan made an Oriental version of the Horex. The
Hosk was rather expensive - and fast. It was the only Japanese bike
that could challenge the English singles and twins for
performance.Eventually Hosk's constant cash-flow difficulties
delivered them to the arms of Showa,which continued to produce an
improved version of the Hosk (many of the Hosk engineers went to work
for Showa when they took over the Hosk factory). Showa sold to Yamaha
in 1960 and the old Horex-inspired 500 twin went with it."

http://www.osg.net/ls.aloisio/index.htm

 

*splutter*

How can you possibly claim to be partly right? You were saying the
XT500 was based on the BAS Gold Star, which it patently wasn't.

TOG's now shown that you're confusing it with the XS and some other
engine entirely. In what way does that make you anything but 100%
wrong?

 

Ace <> spouted the following in

That'd be about right then.

--
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tallbloke
http://www.tallbloke.net
BONY#1 DIAABTCOD#7
Bikes 'n' Bits.

 

spouted the following in

Model: DBD34
Year of manufacture: 1956/63
Capacity (cc): 499
Bore & stroke (mm) 85 x 88
Compression ratio: 9.0:1/10:1
HP @ 7000 rpm 40.0 test date 1961
Torque @ 7000 rpm 30.0 test date 1961

http://www.rockisland.com/~matchbox/goldstar.htm#1962 Gold Star %
20%20Competition

URL prolly wrapped


--
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tallbloke
http://www.tallbloke.net
BONY#1 DIAABTCOD#7
Bikes 'n' Bits.

 

Well Goldies do considerably more than XT's so...

 

They copied the basic design, but then copying a vertical twin layout is
hardly a sin.

You might as well accuse BSA, Norton, AJS, Matchless, Honda, Ducati,
Suzuki, kawasaki and Gawd knows who else of ripping off Triumph because
they built parallel twins as well.

Basically, you quoted a whole load of stuff which relates to a totally
different machine. Further blustering on your part doesn't make you look
brighter, y'know ;-))

 

(WorkTOG) spouted the following in

So European designed twins kick the shit out of jap 4's, whats new? ;-)

--
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tallbloke
http://www.tallbloke.net
BONY#1 DIAABTCOD#7
Bikes 'n' Bits.

 

So if I make a metal box with a wheel at each corner and stuff an engine
somewhere in it I haven't copied someones design and its not original? [1]

Phew! ;-)



[1] Who built the first 4 wheeled car? Daimler?

frag

 

(WorkTOG) spouted the following in

Second bite, bad form I know ;-)

The point TOG, is that the engine was designed by the Germans.

My brother's standard fuel stock framed Bonnie did the quarter mile in
the high-11's.

Eat dust rice burners

--
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tallbloke
http://www.tallbloke.net
BONY#1 DIAABTCOD#7
Bikes 'n' Bits.

 

Bear should go on a diet then.

But seriously folks. Save weight on the reciprocating components so
that you can take the engine to higher revs? That'd be necessary
because of the oversquare nature of the undertorquey XS650 then. But
at those higher revs the little ends disintegrate because they dont
have adequate bearing support.

Sounds like a fundamental design flaw to me.