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I'd forgotten how old you are.

Welcome back btw Chris.

 

On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 21:35:58 +0000, Adrienne M Bonwick

snip>

How about test thalidomide, use it over here and find it's a total
disaster then flog it to the 3rd World?

You know I'm right so don't argue...

Just for the record, I'm in favour of testing drugs on animals but not
cosmetics, shampoos, soaps etc. We've got enough of those products not
to need any more but drugs that work are always welcome.

 

Reminds me of "The Mercy Men":

http://www.scifan.com/titles/title.asp?TI_titleid=10556

 

I also know that they have started testing thalidomide in other
indications and it seems to be working.

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Why? I know that this appears to be a one-off and I tend to think along
the lines of your comment about a ****-up, but why isn't there a point?
Aside from the previous sentence; tests would have been extensively
carried out on animals before even getting anywhere near to the human
testing stage. Once tests were undertaken on humans, this incident
happens.

Please tell me why an anti-animal-tester would have no point? I'm
genuinely interested.

I thought that initially too.

No. I did say I was playing Devils Advocate. (Just to get the blood
boiling on ukrm ;-)

Anyway, IIRC, Thalidomide tested on animals well, but things went
wrong, as the drug wasn't subjected to the correct testing in
subsequent stages. A drug that should never have got out into the
Market place, did.

Your point about tightening controls was trying to fix a problem that
should never have occurred.

 

It's worked fairly well in cases such as lymphoma, prostate cancer and
Crohn's disease, amongst others, I believe

Isn't it also being tested in HIV cases too?

 

Me too, as often as possible.

<G>

 

I don't know what it's being used for but I was working at the plant
where they manufacture it about a year ago. Obviously the manufacturer
has changed their name from Distillers and it came as a bit of a shock
to know they've found another use for it.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide

"Thalidomide had passed safety tests performed on animals,
primarily because the proper tests — particularly those
involving pregnant animals — had not been done...
The failure of these tests to discover the drug's disastrous
consequences highlighted the inadequacy of testing methodologies
in use at that time. This resulted in a dramatic increase in
animal testing across a broad range of species in varying stages
of pregnancy and lifecycle. In fact, later tests did demonstrate
that administering thalidomide to rabbits and mice produces
characteristic deformities in the offspring... If adequate
testing had been done, thalidomide would never have been
approved for pregnant women."

"Thalidomide is also being investigated in HIV-related symptoms
by reducing inflammation (blocking TNF), prostate cancer,
glioblastoma, lymphoma, and Crohn's disease."



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Adrienne M Bonwick
() says...

What surprises me here is that they give it to the first six
humans to have it, and start them all off at the same time.

If they'd staggered the start dates, allowing a day or two
between each recipient, presumably the problems with bloke
number 1 would have shown up in time, and so blokes 2, 3, 4, 5
and 6 would never have had it.

Obviously in 'Project Management For Dummies' terms it makes
sense to start all tests ASAP, but is there a good scientific
reason to test all six blokes in parallel?


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Was the placebo 250mg or 500mg?

 

I don't know how the dosing regimen at this hospital happened but in
the trials I've taken part in dosing has been separated, admittedly by
about 15 mins but that was more so that they didn't have to have two
nurses per volunteer. i can imagine its down to costs.

they haven't said how long after dosing the problems happened.

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*slap*
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Adrienne M Bonwick
() says...

It was 'within hours'.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4811626.stm
Paragraph 7.


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http://www.guardian.co.uk/medicine/story/0,,1732003,00.html

She said her boyfriend, who had taken part in the trial on a "whim", had felt nauseous and complained of a headache within 80 minutes of receiving the injection
at 8am on Monday. He was taken to the intensive care unit and 12 hours later, she said, other volunteers were "dropping like flies". At 3am on Tuesday she was
called by the hospital and rushed to his bedside.

 

in the flesh, it doesn't, IMO. It looks great in pictures; in reality
it's just another big orange KTM.

 

that's exactly what I like about it - though it would look even better
with carbon cans.

 

I assumed that was congenital.

#you know sometimes words have two meanings...

 

Hmm.

Restores hair loss, cures scurvy, snake-bite and syphillis.

Do they have large stocks of it?

 

given that for most anti inflammatories the time to re-dose is 6-8
hours that's still a fair time after being given the drug. headaches
are common in phase I trials. I'd get a headache if I was stuck in an
eight bed ward and not being able to move around. most early trials
require the volunteer to stay lying down for several hours after
dosing.
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