Ducati & WSB

Here's one for the race enthusiasts to ponder:

If the Desmosedici is so good then why don't Ducati make enough to be
able to use it in WSB and stop crying about being at a disadvantage
and needing 1200cc to be competitive against the Japanese
manufacturers 4 cylinder offerings?

It's supposed to be loosely based on the 2006 MGP bike so it should
have the handling to be able to do the business and the engine should
good enough to make it competitive against a GSXR1000 (or whatever Jap
bike you choose) so I'm struggling to see why they insist on being
able to bend the rules to suit themselves.

 

It's not the fact that they aren't competitive, because
they are, it's the *cost* involved in making them competitive
which is where Ducati have an issue. It takes a whole load
of money to tune the 999 to the power level of a Jap-4. I
can't remember the figure toted but it was something like
3x the cost of the bike itself.

The spirit of SBK is to keep them close to production
bikes. Even when Max Biaggi's GSXR was running a single
exhaust system, they still had to keep the other exhaust
as a dummy because you cannot change the silouette of
the bike according to the rules.

Besides, Ducati want to retire the 999 now and move
with the times. Going to 1198cc for the R version, and
hence the one that gets raced in SBK, will allow them
to put less money into tuning the bikes and keeping
them at a level which is still competitive with Jap-4s
now and in the future. It also means they could possibly
field more than one team, which would be better for
the spectators.

If they did run the 'sedici, there would be no market for
the 1098. It's not all about winning races, it's also about
selling bikes.

 

This is the argument I've heard, but if it's impossible to make to
make a V-twin configuration competitive at a reasonable cost then
maybe they should make a 4 cylinder road bike - and develop that
instead. I don't see why the championship rules should be rewritten
just because Ducati are running a bike with two few cylinders.

And anyway, is there going to be a rule which prevents them spending
the same amount of money as they have been doing - and dominating with
the new bike?

Actually, thinking about it, they may be forced to run air restrictors
but ICBW.

 

Ducati V4. Where have I heard that before!

 

Well yes, they have something of a track record, I believe. But
seriously, I don't understand why they don't produce a 4-cyl bike in a
properly affordable kind of way. Obviously the Desmosedici doesn't
count as properly affordable.
Manufacturing costs might make it a non-viable proposition, I suppose.

 

It's tied in with homogolation of the engine. The 1098 range
has a lot of refinements that have filtered through from SBK
which enables them to get more power from the engine. To do
the same tuning to the "basic" 999 engine within the rules
costs them a lot of money, but by building this into the
standard 1098 engine, they have a better platform to start
with. You wouldn't believe how restrictive the SBK rules
are; for example, things like valve sizes, lift, duration,
angle, etc, are all part of the rules, so if you wanted to
change these you'd have to homogolate the changes into the
new bikes.

But as I keep saying, a lot of it is also driven by the
marketing department as they need to ditch the 999 asap.

There isn't, but you have to remember that the 999 is now
5 years old and has therefore had 5 years worth of race
development done to it. It has reached the point where
the team have done all they can with the engine as it is.

Yes, they must run 50mm air restrictors. They also have to
run 6kg heavier than four cylinders (168kg to 162Kg). These
rules are subject to change during the championship should
any machine be seen to have an advantage.

Don't forget the history: when SBK first started it was
750cc fours vs 1000cc twins, and the racing was close.
The twins edged ahead and the fours were no longer
competitive. Honda even created a twin to beat Ducati at
their own game, which they did by one point! The Japanese
manufacturers lobbied for the change to allow 1000cc fours
to compete against the twins and this was granted in 2003
and it took two years for them to surpass the Ducatis
again. Luckily, in 2006, Bayliss came back and kicked arse
to ride the nuts off the 999 and give it a win that it
really shouldn't have got as the fours were now way ahead.

The pendulum swings both ways, and this time it's heading
back in both Ducati and KTM's favour with twin cyl engines.

 

Many years ago...
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/flashback/122_0313_ducati_apollo/photo_03.html

 

I'm still a bit befuddled as to why Honda built a perfectly good WSB v-
twin, won WSB, then ditched it.
<presses button>
after all, how much power can one use ?

 

Because it was about winning the championship rather than
winning sales.

 

Yeah, I suppose running two fantastically expensive race outfits is
what they're trying to avoid.

Anyways, I was actually referring to the inherently higher production/
manufacturing costs of a V4 road bike compared to an inline 4 - what
with all the cam shafts and timing gubbins. Maybe they couldn't shift
them at a price people would be prepared to pay and that's why they
stick to a V2.

 

No, it's because they have no technical knowledge about
building in-line engines, so they never will. This is
a direct quote to me from Livio Lodi who is the curator
at the factory museum.

The V4 project the tackled by bolting two V-twins together,
then guessed the rest!

 

Eh? I'm not saying they should build an inline 4, I'm saying that
maybe the cost of developing and manufacturing a mainstream (Ducati)
V4 road bike would be prohibitively expensive and wouldn't find a
market. Which is a shame.

 

This just has the ring of truth.

Plus, of course, there's the marketing angle. Ducati is utterly
associated with vees.

I find it interesting, though, that BMW has managed to diversify
successfully into inline fours, triples, singles and parallel twins....

 

So what about the 16v inline 4 that Ducati made in 1965?
There are photographs in 'Ducati Motorcycles' by Alan Cathcart.

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Eiron

It was supposed to be a V twin, but the engine guy was a bit pissed that
afternoon.

They don't like to talk about it.

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - "He's hopeless, but he's honest"

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
SBS#39 OMF#6 Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 (Fallen apart) Suzuki TS250 "The Africa Single"
Norton 850 Commando Kawasaki GTR1400

 

They tried it 40 years ago and haven't tried it since? Sort of backs up
what I said.

 

I don't completely agree. The 1200/2cyl rule has beeb copied from the
AMA SBK, and it's not intended for Ducati only. Buell, KTM and BMW are
likeky to run their own 1200/2cyl bikes. And afaik, Buell is far from
ridiculous in AMA SBK.